EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[I1L2T3]

I agree that Merkel will probably be ousted in March and good riddance I hope.I have to wonder how Norway and Switzerland have managed to control their populations but ours has just gone through the roof.I do not know if we are one of the most populated countries in terms of land mass but we must be one of the contenders.I found it interesting that all the jobs that the government has boasted about creating in the last five years are all mainly low pay and probably mostly taken up by migrant EU workers anyway.

 

Norway is full of immigrants. Switzerland the same. Both have high growth rates. You've obviously never been to either, or made yourself aware of the facts.

[PhoenixOneUK]

Norway is full of immigrants. Switzerland the same. Both have high growth rates. You've obviously never been to either, or made yourself aware of the facts.

 

I have, and the UK is not Norway nor Switzerland. And why would it want to be? Why would it want to be anything other than what it is, the UK? Why would it want to be part of any organisation that dictates what it can or cannot do? Surely that decision rests with the population of our country? If our government fails to do what it was elected to do then vote them out.

 

I am second generation British. My parents were Italian but became British subjects before I was born. Why? Because they preferred to be British not Italian citizens. If I wanted to be Italian I would move to Italy. I do not. I am British and proud of it. The government are NOT the British people. They were elected to represent the British people, and not doing very good job of it either (in my opinion). Further, I refuse to consider myself an EU citizen. It is an organisation, a custom union not a sovereign nation no matter how hard it tries to look like one.

[MLAR]

I will be voting out. I am just one of those who fought for this referendum, and had made my mind up a long time ago to vote out.

 

I'll be voting in.

 

So, that's you and me cancelling each other out. Ever feel as though you'd wasted your time?

[Zamo]

I'll be voting in.

 

So, that's you and me cancelling each other out. Ever feel as though you'd wasted your time?

 

There are another million or so useless migrants with unpleasant cultural baggage making their way into Europe to swing the debate. No wonder Cameron is wanting the referendum asap and is no doubt telling other EU to give him some scraps he can dress up as a deal before the migrant tsunami hits and wipes out the 'stay' vote.

[tzijlstra]

This keeps coming back to migration, the referendum is not a vote on migration. Certainly not on "useless migrants with unpleasant cultural baggage" (I'm not racist, I am a culturalist...), the simple fact is, if the UK leaves the migration figures will not magically drop, Aussie system or not.

 

For those saying - our long term unemployed - there aren't that many and those that are long term unemployed need to start packing bags and look at other places in the country. If you live in Teesside and can't find work there, move to Leeds and do, they won't though, so there are other people taking the plentiful jobs out there, Aussie system or not.

 

As for statistics - they are not hard to find, but have a look here for the official numbers..

 

 

What they say is - without immigration our economy is going to slow down enormously. Those figures don't say - without immigration our economy is going to provide magic high-wage roles for all Brits.

 

If you understand very basic macro-economics you know this, but of course if you don't, you are statistically likely to belong to that group of Brits that isn't economically mobile and therefore feels victimised by migration.

[L00b]

This keeps coming back to migration <...>

It does because...

If you understand very basic macro-economics you know this, but of course if you don't, you are statistically likely to belong to that group of Brits that isn't economically mobile and therefore feels victimised by migration.

...that group is very sizeable (to the extent of possibly constituting a majority, relative to the whole voting population - it includes OAPs, for a start).

 

The outcome of the referendum will not turn solely on the topic of migration, no matter how much hot-cold shower treatment massmedia visits on the UK public about it until then.

 

But make no mistake, migration absolutely is one of the few fundamental topics (perceived independence and economical consequences being the 2 others IMHO) that will decide it, when you consider distinct UK voting groups as a homogeneous whole. Relatively recent GE results throughout the EU prove as much, and there is no objective reason to believe that the UK public is presently any more multiculturalist/less anti-immigration than the Poles, French, Swedes <etc.>.

Edited January 28, 2016 by L00b

[I1L2T3]

I have, and the UK is not Norway nor Switzerland. And why would it want to be? Why would it want to be anything other than what it is, the UK? Why would it want to be part of any organisation that dictates what it can or cannot do? Surely that decision rests with the population of our country? If our government fails to do what it was elected to do then vote them out.

 

I am second generation British. My parents were Italian but became British subjects before I was born. Why? Because they preferred to be British not Italian citizens. If I wanted to be Italian I would move to Italy. I do not. I am British and proud of it. The government are NOT the British people. They were elected to represent the British people, and not doing very good job of it either (in my opinion). Further, I refuse to consider myself an EU citizen. It is an organisation, a custom union not a sovereign nation no matter how hard it tries to look like one.

 

I share your sentiments about the creeping role of the EU. I would much rather we were in for primarily trade reasons.

 

However, a vote to leave and a Swiss/Norwegian style arrangement does not fix immigration issues, does not remove a requirement to contribute to the EU budget. But it does mean that we would have no say over the laws that would be imposed on us as part of that single market participation.

 

The only hope of escaping that is to leave the single market but that would be economic suicide. Even if we left we would have to make trade deals with the EU which would most likely involve, you guessed it, clauses around movement of people and adoption of EU regulations and standards. We can't stop trading with the EU and we can't fundamentally change the way 450m other people carry out that trade.

[PhoenixOneUK]

I'll be voting in.

 

So, that's you and me cancelling each other out. Ever feel as though you'd wasted your time?

 

Nope, as you said, we would just cancel each other out. Cancelling you out I consider time well spent.

 

---------- Post added 28-01-2016 at 09:58 ----------

 

I share your sentiments about the creeping role of the EU. I would much rather we were in for primarily trade reasons.

 

However, a vote to leave and a Swiss/Norwegian style arrangement does not fix immigration issues, does not remove a requirement to contribute to the EU budget. But it does mean that we would have no say over the laws that would be imposed on us as part of that single market participation.

 

The only hope of escaping that is to leave the single market but that would be economic suicide. Even if we left we would have to make trade deals with the EU which would most likely involve, you guessed it, clauses around movement of people and adoption of EU regulations and standards. We can't stop trading with the EU and we can't fundamentally change the way 450m other people carry out that trade.

 

I cannot see how we can fix the immigration issue without having control of our own borders. Given the raising of Swiss issue, I trust you are aware that the Swiss had a very recent referendum on that very issue. We then have to turn our eyes towards others like Germany, France, Sweden, Holland, etc. Seems to me that if controlling borders would not fix the immigration issue then why are all those border controls going up?

 

I will not be voting out because of immigration issue, and I fail to understand how so many would consider this more important than regaining control of sovereign powers surrendered. But that is me, and I cannot deny that regaining control of our borders is part of the problem.

Edited January 28, 2016 by PhoenixOneUK

[Zamo]

This keeps coming back to migration, the referendum is not a vote on migration. Certainly not on "useless migrants with unpleasant cultural baggage" (I'm not racist, I am a culturalist...), the simple fact is, if the UK leaves the migration figures will not magically drop, Aussie system or not.

 

For those saying - our long term unemployed - there aren't that many and those that are long term unemployed need to start packing bags and look at other places in the country. If you live in Teesside and can't find work there, move to Leeds and do, they won't though, so there are other people taking the plentiful jobs out there, Aussie system or not.

 

As for statistics - they are not hard to find, but have a look here for the official numbers..

 

 

What they say is - without immigration our economy is going to slow down enormously. Those figures don't say - without immigration our economy is going to provide magic high-wage roles for all Brits.

 

If you understand very basic macro-economics you know this, but of course if you don't, you are statistically likely to belong to that group of Brits that isn't economically mobile and therefore feels victimised by migration.

 

Such arrogance that you think it's for you tell people what reasons are acceptable for wanting to leave the EU!

 

Yes, it's the race of migrants that makes them useless and nothing to do with the language barrier, the lack of skills and education, the fact they'll collectively make a negative financial contribution, that the will create social tension because their cultural and religious beliefs and practices don't fit Westen values and nothing to do with the fact it will put further strain on creaking hospitals, doctors surgeries, schools and social services.

 

Your problem (one of them anyway) is you can't distinguish between immigration control (bringing in those we need and add value) from no immigration. That's your problem.

[I1L2T3]

Such arrogance that you think it's for you tell people what reasons are acceptable for wanting to leave the EU!

 

Yes, it's the race of migrants that makes them useless and nothing to do with the language barrier, the lack of skills and education, the fact they'll collectively make a negative financial contribution, that the will create social tension because their cultural and religious beliefs and practices don't fit Westen values and nothing to do with the fact it will put further strain on creaking hospitals, doctors surgeries, schools and social services.

 

Your problem (one of them anyway) is you can't distinguish between immigration control (bringing in those we need and add value) from no immigration. That's your problem.

 

Problem is that a big part of the profile is non-EU immigration. Leaving the EU doesn't fix that. It could quite easily make things worse.