Futures Red Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Hasn't society got things totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I didn't like it, and I can't explain it, (except that Nigel Farage was involved.) But neither can I understand the remain poster of the see-saw with the thuggish skin head and the Indian Lady, put out by the Remain campaign, (sorry I can't do a link, but I think you'll know the one.) So they cancel each other out for unpleasant propoganda and I ignore them both. Both sides have had a tendency to go for the easiest, lowest common denominator, which I think shows a lack of respect for the electorate, and insults their intelligence. This debate is about so much more than immigration. I've looked at it from all angles, watched and read loads of media coverage and tried to verify much of what I've seen and heard with facts, and on balance I'm with the Out campaign (and yes, it is a bit scarey, but I think it's the right decision, and we'll come through it stronger and better. Britain does seem to thrive when the chips are down and we have to pull together.We're determined little buggers) The EU in its present form is failing, and much worse is to come within the union. If Greece had been allowed to leave, and go back to the drachma, then with support; (real support that genuine friends give each other, not the boot-in blackmail and interest heavy loans the EU have offered,) they might have been well on the way to recovery by now. The EU thrives on bureaucracy, in fact seems to be its raison d'etre, yet it seems to have failed to tackle some of the major issues of our time. It just churns out more and more petty rules and regulations. Running things by committee is known to be a slow, ponderous procedure. With 28 countries to please, language barriers, cultural differences etc everything moves with grinding slowness, which in a world which is increasing in speed every day is simply not good enough. We have always been a maverick country with enormous potential which is stymied by EU regulation. I have every confidence we will not only survive but thrive and prosper outside the Union, and far from being alone, we will be opening ourselves up to the rest of the world. Fair enough, I don't agree with anything you said and it still baffles me that people think leaving the EU will somehow propel the UK to great heights. It is a sentimental longing back to years gone by that I just do not correlate with. Just as an aside, rule-pressure, ie. the amount of regulation involved with doing business, in the UK is lower now than it ever was before. It is ranked 6th in the world on that front, behind Singapore, HongKong, Korea, New Zealand and Denmark. So you can say what you like about the EU being bureaucratic and forcing things upon the UK, but the facts don't bear that out, at all. Similarly, the EU as an economy is slower to climb out of the crisis than the UK, that much is true, but combined, it has reduced debts as a percentage of its GDP faster than the UK has, it is being held back by failing economies (Greece, Italy and Spain and Portugal in particular) but without those the Union is outperforming Britain significantly. So you can say what you like about the EU being 'a mess' economically, but the facts don't bear that out, at all. Greece is an interesting point. Each time they forced through difficult decisions they went to the people for an election, easily forgot by people here it seems, but even when they elected in Syriza, they analysed the alternatives and then, in a democratic vote, decided to take the hit and try and sort their economy out. So you can say what you like about the EU mistreating Greece, but the facts don't bear that out, at all. It is demagogy that has led you to believe that the UK will be better out, so now you are voting for a nationalist issue, with very nasty nationalist elements, believing that your country will somehow become better. You will come to regret that decision, when you, as a teacher, see that funding for education gets cut even further, the NHS becomes unprotected in the budget, and the national deficit does not get closed. People like Unbeliever, Johnson, Gove and so on are very good at underplaying the reality of the economic impact, stating it will be fine. Unbeliever himself has stated that he is prepared to take the economic hit in favour of 'sovereignty'. Good luck, you'll need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samssong Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Hasn't society got things totally wrong. Read 1984. Orwell predicted Eurasia and how it turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 One thing I can't get my head around is that the Leave campaign is managing to convince people like you, whilst equally appealing to the anti-migration mob. It helps to be right. I can't understand people who continue to defend the EU despite all the harm its policies, most notably EMU, are doing to the peoples of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Are the photo's fakes? Are the photo's of Syrian refugees being kettled like they are football hooligans? What is the relevance of that photo appearing on a Dutch blog? Can you explain that? ---------- Post added 22-06-2016 at 12:57 ---------- It helps to be right. I can't understand people who continue to defend the EU despite all the harm its policies, most notably EMU, are doing to the peoples of Europe. That is because you believe (ironic) that the EMU is doing damage to the people of Europe, the truth doesn't bear that out at all. As I just reflected upon in my reply to Anna, the people of Greece were given options, they called elections and referenda on the subject and each time they chose to go the route suggested by the IMF and the Eurozone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 People like Unbeliever, Johnson, Gove and so on are very good at underplaying the reality of the economic impact, stating it will be fine. Unbeliever himself has stated that he is prepared to take the economic hit in favour of 'sovereignty'. Good luck, you'll need it. Theoretical (but admittedly not impossible) short-term and very slight pain for massive long-term gain. But of a no-brainer really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Theoretical (but admittedly not impossible) short-term and very slight pain for massive long-term gain. But of a no-brainer really. Like I said, underplayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 That is because you believe (ironic) that the EMU is doing damage to the people of Europe, the truth doesn't bear that out at all. As I just reflected upon in my reply to Anna, the people of Greece were given options, they called elections and referenda on the subject and each time they chose to go the route suggested by the IMF and the Eurozone. How is a country like Greece, with an economy which could not possibly be moe dissimilar from that of Germany, supposed to live with the same monetary policy? It was a stupid idea implemented by stupid people, for stupid political reasons, because they're stupid. It's not just Greece either as you well know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I can't understand people who continue to defend the EU despite all the harm its policies, most notably EMU, are doing to the peoples of Europe How is leaving going to help them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Like I said, underplayed. Underplayed here being code for "not exaggerated out of all proportion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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