JFKvsNixon Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't think that the people who are intensely anti-EU have thought things though, who and what are they going to blame if we do actually leave the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't think that the people who are intensely anti-EU have thought things though, who and what are they going to blame if we do actually leave the EU? It seems to be a silver bullet for immigration control and for ceasing EU contributions, those along with freeing us from EU legislation. Leaving actually achieves none of those things automatically. The vote to leave camp actually say nothing about any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixOneUK Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't think that the people who are intensely anti-EU have thought things though, who and what are they going to blame if we do actually leave the EU? I thought things through, and very carefully. Seems to me that it is the Europhiles that have a problem, and that problem being living in denial no matter what happens. As for who would I blame if things go wrong, I believe that would be obvious. Our own government, and we can vote them out if thy screw up. ---------- Post added 28-01-2016 at 13:37 ---------- It seems to be a silver bullet for immigration control and for ceasing EU contributions, those along with freeing us from EU legislation. Leaving actually achieves none of those things automatically. The vote to leave camp actually say nothing about any of this. There is a thing called the EU Open Border policy. Leaving the EU would return control to our own Parliament where it belongs and should have never left. And what of vote stay? What are they offering? Stay in no matter what happens, and that is on record. No thank you. I am no lemming. If the vote leave camp want to jump off a cliff they can do it without me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projection Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Is there any restrictions within the current freedom of movement when it comes to numbers allowed in? if not why not?, surely it can't be infinite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 It seems to be a silver bullet for immigration control and for ceasing EU contributions, those along with freeing us from EU legislation. Leaving actually achieves none of those things automatically. The vote to leave camp actually say nothing about any of this. What it means is whether they make a mess of it or not then they can only blame themselves or take full credit for it. the importnat thing is that it's British rulers over British people. We can control our own borders, but however restrictive this is will be met in kind. The point made several times by I1L2T3 about the swiss experience is a good one and that renegotiating the nature of the trade deal may not be as easy as people think, especially if its linked to free movement. It makes no difference to asylum seeker policy other than we wont be bound by the Dublin rules, which we more or less ignore anyway. We wont have to make a contribution to the EU, but we will have to pay extra if we want to trade in the EU in terms of direct taxes and indirect expenses. We can make our own laws again, but now businesses who trade with the EU will have the expense of dealing with two systems. I havent made my mind up yet, but I can see any vote being driven by immigration rather than long term interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lottiecass Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Good points tigger but immigration is a long term interest and it looks like it is heading the out peoples list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Equato Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 If you understand very basic macro-economics you know this, but of course if you don't, you are statistically likely to belong to that group of Brits that isn't economically mobile and therefore feels victimised by migration. And similarly, I doubt the people at the top of Both the EU and HM government who (To me) don't seem bothered about doing anything about checking the flood aren't affected by it, not competing for low paid jobs with them, not waiting weeks for doctors appointments, not competing for scarce social housing with them (Doubtful in rural Oxfordshire anyway), won't have their childrens education affected by it, not too many children of penniless migrants at Eton or St Pauls or Fettes. That being said, unfortunately, the disasters in the countries the migrants are leaving are partly down to our do-gooding government poking its nose into societies and conflicts it didn't seem to begin to understand so you could argue it's up to us to reap the whirlwind, maybe Tony B Liar could put some of them up in some of his many houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixOneUK Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 What it means is whether they make a mess of it or not then they can only blame themselves or take full credit for it. the importnat thing is that it's British rulers over British people. We can control our own borders, but however restrictive this is will be met in kind. The point made several times by I1L2T3 about the swiss experience is a good one and that renegotiating the nature of the trade deal may not be as easy as people think, especially if its linked to free movement. It makes no difference to asylum seeker policy other than we wont be bound by the Dublin rules, which we more or less ignore anyway. We wont have to make a contribution to the EU, but we will have to pay extra if we want to trade in the EU in terms of direct taxes and indirect expenses. We can make our own laws again, but now businesses who trade with the EU will have the expense of dealing with two systems. I havent made my mind up yet, but I can see any vote being driven by immigration rather than long term interests. Given the Swiss issue was raised yet again, I trust you are aware that (a) Switzerland is not a member state of EU, and (b) In latest Swiss referendum they voted against further immigration, including from EU member states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Given the Swiss issue was raised yet again, I trust you are aware that (a) Switzerland is not a member state of EU, and (b) In latest Swiss referendum they voted against further immigration, including from EU member states. Yes thanks. Youve missed the point that neither will the UK be if it votes to leave. You missed the point again, that yes the Swiss did vote on the one hand, but they also agreed to free movement on the other. They cant have it both ways. If they want to restrict movement thats fine, but the EU will deny them access to the single market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixOneUK Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Yes thanks. Youve missed the point that neither will the UK be if it votes to leave. You missed the point again, that yes the Swiss did vote on the one hand, but they also agreed to free movement on the other. They cant have it both ways. If they want to restrict movement thats fine, but the EU will deny them access to the single market. I understand that, but you missed the point I was making. The Swiss were free to make their own choice, and that freedom came from not being a member state of EU. There is also an issue many fail to grasp and/or understand, and that point being that there exists a major difference between immigration and mass uncontrolled immigration. then we have the trade issue to consider. Do you seriously believe that EU member states like Germany, France, Italy, etc would cease to trade with UK should it leave the block? This argument is nonsense. We can add what Juncker for EU stated to global population that without free movement what is the point of being a member of Eurozone. I would also point out that the USA, China, Japan, etc are not EU member states but trade with EU, and note that even a small country like Iceland has even made its own trade deal with China. To even imply the UK could not do the same or better is also nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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