JFKvsNixon Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Many companies would shudder at the thought of not having our trade.They will beg us for it,not the other way round. I shudder to think what would happened if we were to enter the negotiations with the attitude that we're doing them a favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 You want me to provide substance to my argument despite the fact that your argument has no substance. You are just saying that everything will be fine if we stay and a disaster if we leave. I prefer freedom whilst you clearly think a lack of freedom provides more security. The plan is for the elected UK government to run the country without any interference from Brussels, it isn't a leap in the dark it is a leap to freedom. No, I'm arguing that staying is a known quantity. We know what our trading relationships are. We know that we have a commitment from the European Council for a two-speed Europe. We know we have the Schengen opt-out and other opt-outs on asylum policy. That is not without substance. There are no solid plans being provided by the 'leave' campaigns so by definition those campaigns are lacking in substance. As for a leap to freedom do you think trading with the EU and having zero say in the rules that govern that trade makes us more free? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 No, I'm arguing that staying is a known quantity. We know what our trading relationships are. We know that we have a commitment from the European Council for a two-speed Europe. We know we have the Schengen opt-out and other opt-outs on asylum policy. That is not without substance. There are no solid plans being provided by the 'leave' campaigns so by definition those campaign is lacking in substance. As for a leap to freedom do you think trading with the EU and having zero say in the rules that govern that trade makes us more free? Really? It isn't a known quantity though and you can't guarantee that we won't go down with it when it eventually comes crashing down. We have an unbinding agreement that can be changed or ignored in the future. The leave plan is for the UK government to run the UK without interference from the EU. We will trade with the EU and we will have a say in the terms of that trade, we will also have more freedom to make our own choices and deals around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I shudder to think what would happened if we were to enter the negotiations with the attitude that we're doing them a favour. How would you describe buying 1.4 million cars from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srt2016 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I shudder to think what would happened if we were to enter the negotiations with the attitude that we're doing them a favour. That is exactly what you do as a customer? Or do you go into a shop and beg them to sell you stuff? Many companys would fold over night without the trade from the UK. How many BMW's do you think are sold here? Enough for BMW to fold without them sales? Probably! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 It isn't a known quantity though and you can't guarantee that we won't go down with it when it eventually comes crashing down. We have an unbinding agreement that can be changed or ignored in the future. The leave plan is for the UK government to run the UK without interference from the EU. We will trade with the EU and we will have a say in the terms of that trade, we will also have more freedom to make our own choices and deals around the world. Your arguments seem to be predicated on EU collapse. There is no evidence it will collapse. You're still not getting it about the trade rules. If we stay in the single market we do not dictate the terms of the trade. The EU does. We would have less control. Not more. ---------- Post added 21-02-2016 at 13:49 ---------- How would you describe buying 1.4 million cars from them? We'd still be able to buy the cars because unless we exited the single market there would be no tariffs on cars. The only tariffs between EU and Norway for example are in place to protect niche sectors in Norwegian agriculture. You know, certain cheeses and smelly fish products. One thing that astounds me about the 'leave' campaigns is how totally lacking in background knowledge most Brexiters are. But I guess that is what comes of spending years being obsessed about immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Your arguments seem to be predicated on EU collapse. There is no evidence it will collapse. You're still not getting it about the trade rules. If we stay in the single market we do not dictate the terms of the trade. The EU does. We would have less control. Not more. And you arguments are based on the fact it won't collapse and that the UK can't be prosperous without the EU, you have no evidence to support either stance. I have no doubt that we won't dictate the rules of a trade deal but we will negotiate a trade deal for which we will have some say on the rules, what we get rather depends on who does the deal, but then there will be nothing stopping a future government renegotiating a better deal. We would have total control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 We'd still be able to buy the cars because unless we exited the single market there would be no tariffs on cars. So we would be able to carry on our trade (import and export) with Europe just the same as if we were in the EU. Thanks for clearing that up.:thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 That is exactly what you do as a customer? Or do you go into a shop and beg them to sell you stuff? Many companys would fold over night without the trade from the UK. How many BMW's do you think are sold here? Enough for BMW to fold without them sales? Probably! Nobody will stop buying BMWs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srt2016 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Your arguments seem to be predicated on EU collapse. There is no evidence it will collapse. You're still not getting it about the trade rules. If we stay in the single market we do not dictate the terms of the trade. The EU does. We would have less control. Not more. ---------- Post added 21-02-2016 at 13:49 ---------- We'd still be able to buy the cars because unless we exited the single market there would be no tariffs on cars. The only tariffs between EU and Norway for example are in place to protect niche sectors in Norwegian agriculture. You know, certain cheeses and smelly fish products. One thing that astounds me about the 'leave' campaigns is how totally lacking in background knowledge most Brexiters are. But I guess that is what comes of spending years being obsessed about immigration. From what I see,the ones who want to stay,THINK they are better than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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