George Osbourne Planning Tax credit cuts: Fair?

[TJC1]

The point is, if your self-employed job isn't making any money, and the only money you make is from tax credits, you're not really self-employed, it's just the dole and having a hobby.

 

So all self employed make loads of net profit in first years? Youre obviously not self employed

[taxman]

Do working tax credits not take into account any "dividends" payed out?

 

They do, but if the Ltd Co. is just a sham to enable the tax credit claim then there won't be any dividends

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 07:41 ----------

 

That woman on Question Time was probably a Labour plant. Of any given QT audience, I'd estimate about 2% are genuine people, and the rest either party plants or BBC cherry picked cheerleaders getting ready to clap the inevitable "let's celebrate the diversity" line to suit their agenda.

 

The fact is, whether you agree with tax credit cuts or not, the electorate collectively voted in the Tories with a mandate for £24bn welfare cuts where tax credits were not explicitly excluded (child benefit was, but that keeps getting conflated with child tax credit). The House of Lords, who nobody voted for, have prevented this from happening, or at least stalled it. This is simply not how a democracy should work.

 

Cameron explicitly excluded tax credit cuts on live television.

 

Lying to the electorate is much more a "threat to the constitution" than the HOL referring a statutory instrument back to the government for revising.

[WiseOwl182]

They do, but if the Ltd Co. is just a sham to enable the tax credit claim then there won't be any dividends

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 07:41 ----------

 

 

Cameron explicitly excluded tax credit cuts on live television.

 

Lying to the electorate is much more a "threat to the constitution" than the HOL referring a statutory instrument back to the government for revising.

 

I disagree. He explicitly ruled out cuts to child benefit but never said tax credit, although he did get tripped up in the questioning. I watched all the debates and it was obvious tax credits were going to be part of the cuts.

[Orzel]

Cameron explicitly excluded tax credit cuts on live television.

 

Can anyone post youtube/iplayer/whatever link when he does exactly that ?

 

My personal experience is that WTC is incentive to work no more and no less then 16h/w because of the way its calculated.

I know more than one person who does exactly that.

Ask employees at your local ASDA how many hours they do.

I'm not saying all of them do it, but a lot.

 

One way I see to make WTC fair and working as incentive would be if it were calculated and paid out in proportion to hours worked

 

This way real working poor who I fully sympathize with would get boost to earnings while people who choose to work part time would get a lot less of MY money that I have to work hard for full time.

[Cyclone]

According to theory the reduction in WTC is always less than the increase in net pay from working more hours...

[projection]

Can anyone post youtube/iplayer/whatever link when he does exactly that ?

 

he confirmed child tax credit won't fall here

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxS-Tow-Qik

[Orzel]

According to theory the reduction in WTC is always less than the increase in net pay from working more hours...

 

That may be, but overall decrease in all benefits gives you less money in end or you get some silly amount per each extra hour worked.

Its working out as less then a quid per hour in some instances I know of(taking into account benefit loss, money earned and all other variables).

Not much of a incentive to do more hours.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 10:05 ----------

 

he confirmed child tax credit won't fall here

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxS-Tow-Qik

 

Ok, so that is about CHILD tax credit

 

Can anyone post anything about Osborne promising not to cut WORKING tax credit ?

 

Does anyone know exactly which tax credit was meant to be cut and how?

[spilldig]

people on working tax credits arent 'staying at home'. The clue is in the title.

 

Not always. Some years ago one of our neighbours did work for a company by self-assembling things at home. The company delivered these in a van and picked the assembled things up thereby saving themselves paying out for factory premises. The company paid for each one done,i'e the time took didn't matter but the advertising said that one assembly should take about one hour. He would openly brag to anyone who would listen that he only assembled about three per week and just told the powers that be that he was a slow worker and it took him sixteen hours to assemble the three, thereby working about three hours per week and getting full credits.

[TJC1]

Not always. Some years ago one of our neighbours did work for a company by self-assembling things at home. The company delivered these in a van and picked the assembled things up thereby saving themselves paying out for factory premises. The company paid for each one done,i'e the time took didn't matter but the advertising said that one assembly should take about one hour. He would openly brag to anyone who would listen that he only assembled about three per week and just told the powers that be that he was a slow worker and it took him sixteen hours to assemble the three, thereby working about three hours per week and getting full credits.

 

that's called benefit fraud. Nothing to do with legitimately claiming WTC.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 10:59 ----------

 

According to theory the reduction in WTC is always less than the increase in net pay from working more hours...

 

It's just so damn complicated.

Wouldnt it be much simpler to have a living wage and child care provision and remove WTC / CTC entirely.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 11:06 ----------

 

Can anyone post youtube/iplayer/whatever link when he does exactly that ?

 

My personal experience is that WTC is incentive to work no more and no less then 16h/w because of the way its calculated.

I know more than one person who does exactly that.

Ask employees at your local ASDA how many hours they do.

I'm not saying all of them do it, but a lot.

 

One way I see to make WTC fair and working as incentive would be if it were calculated and paid out in proportion to hours worked

 

This way real working poor who I fully sympathize with would get boost to earnings while people who choose to work part time would get a lot less of MY money that I have to work hard for full time.

 

according to https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/working-tax-credit#who-qualifies-for-working-tax-credit

 

it's only single people with children, couples with children, disabled and 60+ that work 16 hours.

for single people aged 25-59 it's 30 hours.

 

I guess if you have children, you possibly need the extra time spare?

 

I'd also say the reason you will get that answer at ASDA is because over 90% of the workforce is on minimum wage.

 

If ASDA simply paid a living wage, it would remove the need to play the system and encourage workers to take more hours.

Edited October 28, 2015 by TJC1
..........

[sgtkate]

That woman on Question Time was probably a Labour plant. Of any given QT audience, I'd estimate about 2% are genuine people, and the rest either party plants or BBC cherry picked cheerleaders getting ready to clap the inevitable "let's celebrate the diversity" line to suit their agenda.

 

The fact is, whether you agree with tax credit cuts or not, the electorate collectively voted in the Tories with a mandate for £24bn welfare cuts where tax credits were not explicitly excluded (child benefit was, but that keeps getting conflated with child tax credit). The House of Lords, who nobody voted for, have prevented this from happening, or at least stalled it. This is simply not how a democracy should work.

 

But that IS how our democracy works. The Lords are a part of it. I'm not too happy with it either but weirdly I don't have an issue with an unelected house I have issues with how they are chosen. If we had a body of experts in their field then we'd have a fantastic mechanism to chuck out laws that are simply populist and wrong, both Labour and Tories. But in this case, I don't think the law was populist or 'wrong' within the bounds of what the Tories were setup to do. And while I'm joyous that the bill has been delayed, I am saddened that we had to rely on the Lords to do it.

 

Right outcome for the wrong reason.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 11:27 ----------

 

It's just so damn complicated.

Wouldnt it be much simpler to have a living wage and child care provision and remove WTC / CTC entirely.

 

 

Yes! I know it had to happen that we'd agree eventually