How to handle illegal immigrants

[tzijlstra]

RickyM said "foreigner" which means they were not born here and do have somewhere to go back to.

 

RickyM said "Ethnic minorities that have UK Citizenship helped to return to their own countries", also means they were not born here so do have a country to go back to.

 

Read the bolded part:

 

Thanks for attempting to answer the questions.

 

1. Whilst you state you don't support immigration that is 'free-for-all' and 'unchecked' you claim that it has reduced since 2009 - last year it stood at 298,000. I accept that it's difficult to define 'mass-immigration' it is widely accepted amongst the media and UK public that the levels the UK has seen since the late nineties can be described in this way.

 

2. I don't agree with your answer. There is segregation and it exists in most cities and lots of large towns. Whole communities exist where the proportion of racial groups constitute a huge and growing proportion of the population. In Sheffield Burngreave, Darnall and Pitsmoor would be some examples of (self imposed) segregation and the White British population would not be welcome to visit and live there. The hostility(racism) faced would be a deterrent.

 

3. Always bad? It's much more profound and serious to be dismissed as 'bad'.....It's about the social fabric of a country and the basic nature of human civilisation. Humans like to live amongst people that are like them.

 

Fair enough, I'll answer your question - my stated intent (you mean desire???) to repatriate (possibly 2nd and 3rd generation) is due to what I've outlined in 2 and 3. They and their ancestors were brought here to serve a short term economic purpose which was to rebuild the country's infrastructure post WW2 and to provide labour to the cotton mills and some bus and train providers.

 

So he quite clearly is talking about anybody not white British. That is making a difference between people based on what race they are. We have a perfectly functioning word that describes doing that: racism.

 

Later on, the purpose of immigration changed to creating a surplus of workers to reduce wages for big business as big business could no longer increase profits from increased sales as the UK is a post-industrial economy. An economy that doesn't manufacture goods has to seek it's growth in services and this can only be obtained through access to debt to consumers and lowering wages and other costs, like Health and Safety..

 

I don't know where you get this idea from, but it is deeply flawed on many levels, firstly, the purpose did not change, immigration has almost always had economic reasons. The difference is that now people are not actively recruited to come here by the state, except they technically still are, the state and companies. Thousands of Indians come across each year to work in IT here, Philipino nurses, German and Dutch engineers are actively headhunted by the (petro) chemical industries.

 

That is nothing to do with reducing wages for big business (wages have been going up for a very, very long time and average wages in Britain are considerably higher than in other comparable economies) it is to do with a shortage of skill-level in the population and the fact that Britain is competing on a global scale.

 

You make the typical error of many anti-immigration preachers - you target uneducated immigrants but get utterly confused in real figures and statistics in doing so.

 

Cyclone.......you need to take a chill pill first.

 

Secondly - I am an indigenous Briton and I have more rights to both live here and to vote for a party that I feel represents my view. I am a democrat and respect the fact that you don't agree with me but please don't call me xenophobic when you've never met me or listened to what I've said.

 

You what??? You have more rights? Than who?

 

Maybe you could answer some questions for me.......let's give it a go.

 

1. Do you support mass-immigration, at the level it has been for the last 15 years?

 

I think we need to alter the discourse on this topic and start talking about free movement of people. Yes, I do support the free movement of people, if people want to settle here than let them. If the country is too expensive for those that don't bring anything to the party than they will leave, for all the others? Please do come, bring in wealth, skill and culture.

 

2. Do you agree or disagree that multi-culturalism has caused British society to become segregated on both racial and religious grounds?............

 

It's no more segregated than it always was. What has changed is that people are increasingly pointing at that segregation in an attempt to... justify further segregation.

 

3. Is this a bad thing?

 

Go on.........have a go, I'm interested in how and why you think the way you do.

 

Is what a bad thing?

 

I'm sick of being nasty to you:|

 

I really like your profile pic.....it's a lovely dog.

 

I haven't observed any nastiness yet?

 

Thanks, this one isn't actually mine, but I have got one like it at home. Sweetest thing in the world.

[RickyM]

Yes thats a good point people became more educated on sexual health and that there were the contraceptives becoming more freely available. In China your only allowed one child or you were before. :) :)

 

In China the one child policy is still in existence but not for the rural minority population - they can have two.

 

Lots of factors affect fertility including whether the woman lives in a 'traditional' society (like Italy and Germany) where having a child means it's not socially acceptable to go to work. The environment - urban or rural. Urban areas tend to see lower fertility. Also, incomes and ability to afford accommodation along with employment security.

 

I read a lot about it for a University Access course a few years ago. I found it to be interesting.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 17:06 ----------

 

Read the bolded part:

 

 

 

So he quite clearly is talking about anybody not white British. That is making a difference between people based on what race they are. We have a perfectly functioning word that describes doing that: racism.

 

 

 

I don't know where you get this idea from, but it is deeply flawed on many levels, firstly, the purpose did not change, immigration has almost always had economic reasons. The difference is that now people are not actively recruited to come here by the state, except they technically still are, the state and companies. Thousands of Indians come across each year to work in IT here, Philipino nurses, German and Dutch engineers are actively headhunted by the (petro) chemical industries.

 

That is nothing to do with reducing wages for big business (wages have been going up for a very, very long time and average wages in Britain are considerably higher than in other comparable economies) it is to do with a shortage of skill-level in the population and the fact that Britain is competing on a global scale.

 

You make the typical error of many anti-immigration preachers - you target uneducated immigrants but get utterly confused in real figures and statistics in doing so.

 

 

 

You what??? You have more rights? Than who?

 

 

 

I think we need to alter the discourse on this topic and start talking about free movement of people. Yes, I do support the free movement of people, if people want to settle here than let them. If the country is too expensive for those that don't bring anything to the party than they will leave, for all the others? Please do come, bring in wealth, skill and culture.

 

 

 

It's no more segregated than it always was. What has changed is that people are increasingly pointing at that segregation in an attempt to... justify further segregation.

 

 

 

Is what a bad thing?

 

 

 

I haven't observed any nastiness yet?

 

Thanks, this one isn't actually mine, but I have got one like it at home. Sweetest thing in the world.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I will respond, courteously later on as I have to go now.

[eckby]

Read the bolded part:

 

So he quite clearly is talking about anybody not white British. That is making a difference between people based on what race they are. We have a perfectly functioning word that describes doing that: racism.

 

Whilst the idea is daft and unworkable it wouldn't include all non white British people, and it would include some white British people, daft yes, racist I don't think so.

[tzijlstra]

Whilst the idea is daft and unworkable it wouldn't include all non white British people, and it would include some white British people, daft yes, racist I don't think so.

 

So what is the point you are making?

 

"It is OK! We are only sending half your family to Jamaica! Relax! We are also sending that Pakistani family back, why do you have to worry! Look, if it makes you feel better, those Jones's that live down the road? Yeah, they've been on benefits for years, we will send them to Jamaica as well! ":loopy:

[Halibut]

Fair enough, I'll answer your question - my stated intent (you mean desire???) to repatriate (possibly 2nd and 3rd generation) is due to what I've outlined in 2 and 3. They and their ancestors were brought here to serve a short term economic purpose which was to rebuild the country's infrastructure post WW2 and to provide labour to the cotton mills and some bus and train providers.

 

Later on, the purpose of immigration changed to creating a surplus of workers to reduce wages for big business as big business could no longer increase profits from increased sales as the UK is a post-industrial economy. An economy that doesn't manufacture goods has to seek it's growth in services and this can only be obtained through access to debt to consumers and lowering wages and other costs, like Health and Safety..

 

Blatant racism. Extraordinary.The reasons you cite are rubbish; utter rubbish.

Have you actually read what you wrote?

 

Furthermore, if you came round to my house trying to repatriate any of my family and friends we'd make you go away and never come back again. The pathetic cocksure arrogance of moral degenerates like you never fails to both amuse and disgust me.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 21:47 ----------

 

I am an indigenous Briton and I have more rights to both live here

 

No you don't, that's total nonsense.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Halibut

[RickyM]

Blatant racism. Extraordinary.The reasons you cite are rubbish; utter rubbish.

Have you actually read what you wrote?

 

Furthermore, if you came round to my house trying to repatriate any of my family and friends we'd make you go away and never come back again. The pathetic cocksure arrogance of moral degenerates like you never fails to both amuse and disgust me.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 21:47 ----------

 

 

No you don't, that's total nonsense.

 

A bit harsh but as a democrat I respect the fact you don't agree with me.

 

What you seem to have missed is that the majority of ethnic minority groups present in the UK aren't citizens; they are here because they either have visas(Non EU nationals) or because they are able to live here visa-free(EU nationals) so they are here at the discretion of the British Government. Only a citizen has the right of abode in a country.

 

You made the point about coming to your house to repatriate members of your family - my response is that I don't know your families' circumstances so I can't answer that! Generally and as I've stated above, a government has the right to uphold its laws in deporting a foreign national when a visa is breached so I don't understand what your point is?

 

Finally - I, as a UK national do have rights that foreign nationals don't have: The right to enter the UK without being subject to immigration control, the right to vote (though Commonwealth nationals can vote too - but shouldn't in my view), some jobs in government are reserved for UK nationals only and the ability to claim welfare or grants for educational purposes etc.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 22:17 ----------

 

Read the bolded part:

 

 

 

So he quite clearly is talking about anybody not white British. That is making a difference between people based on what race they are. We have a perfectly functioning word that describes doing that: racism.

 

 

 

I don't know where you get this idea from, but it is deeply flawed on many levels, firstly, the purpose did not change, immigration has almost always had economic reasons. The difference is that now people are not actively recruited to come here by the state, except they technically still are, the state and companies. Thousands of Indians come across each year to work in IT here, Philipino nurses, German and Dutch engineers are actively headhunted by the (petro) chemical industries.

 

That is nothing to do with reducing wages for big business (wages have been going up for a very, very long time and average wages in Britain are considerably higher than in other comparable economies) it is to do with a shortage of skill-level in the population and the fact that Britain is competing on a global scale.

 

You make the typical error of many anti-immigration preachers - you target uneducated immigrants but get utterly confused in real figures and statistics in doing so.

 

 

 

You what??? You have more rights? Than who?

 

 

 

I think we need to alter the discourse on this topic and start talking about free movement of people. Yes, I do support the free movement of people, if people want to settle here than let them. If the country is too expensive for those that don't bring anything to the party than they will leave, for all the others? Please do come, bring in wealth, skill and culture.

 

 

 

It's no more segregated than it always was. What has changed is that people are increasingly pointing at that segregation in an attempt to... justify further segregation.

 

 

 

Is what a bad thing?

 

 

 

I haven't observed any nastiness yet?

 

Thanks, this one isn't actually mine, but I have got one like it at home. Sweetest thing in the world.

 

I'll have to reply tomorrow as I haven't got time to do so now but I'm looking forward to it!!

 

Night night.

[eckby]

So what is the point you are making?

 

"It is OK! We are only sending half your family to Jamaica! Relax! We are also sending that Pakistani family back, why do you have to worry! Look, if it makes you feel better, those Jones's that live down the road? Yeah, they've been on benefits for years, we will send them to Jamaica as well! ":loopy:

 

The point I made was in the post you quoted.

 

For the rest of your post.

 

What are you talking about?????????

[Halibut]

The point I made was in the post you quoted.

 

For the rest of your post.

 

What are you talking about?????????

 

Your apparent point, which was that a policy of repatriation can't be racist if it includes some white people is utterly absurd.

[Cyclone]

Cyclone.......you need to take a chill pill first.

 

Secondly - I am an indigenous Briton and I have more rights to both live here and to vote for a party that I feel represents my view. I am a democrat and respect the fact that you don't agree with me but please don't call me xenophobic when you've never met me or listened to what I've said.

You have more rights than someone who's grand parents immigrated here.

Can you actually hear yourself.

I've read what you've written, if you were any more xenophobic you'd probably explode from seeing a black person on the street.

 

I'm not going to answer your questions, you can start an appropriate thread and maybe I'll comment there.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:07 ----------

 

RickyM said "foreigner" which means they were not born here and do have somewhere to go back to.

 

RickyM said "Ethnic minorities that have UK Citizenship helped to return to their own countries", also means they were not born here so do have a country to go back to.

 

It's nice of you to try to reinterpret his words to mean something else, but there's nothing there that means they weren't born here.

Ethnic minorities that have UK Citizenship includes families that have been here for multiple generations.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:08 ----------

 

Cyclone wont answer but it was worth trying........

 

Yeah, sorry that I didn't stay in all day yesterday to argue with you on the internet.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:09 ----------

 

It's partly that but also to do with contraceptives being more widely available and the 'sexual revolution'.

 

The UK isn't the only country to see this. The lowest levels of fertility though are for countries like Germany and Japan with much lower levels (1.3 per woman) and their populations will shrink by a third within 50 years.

 

And without immigration they have a real problem due to the population pyramid inversion.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:11 ----------

 

I'm also highly amused by the attempt to use 'do-gooder' as a derogatory term. Are you right wingers proud of going around doing bad, or perhaps you prefer the term evil?

[retep]

You have more rights than someone who's grand parents immigrated here.

Can you actually hear yourself.

I've read what you've written, if you were any more xenophobic you'd probably explode from seeing a black person on the street.

 

I'm not going to answer your questions, you can start an appropriate thread and maybe I'll comment there.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:07 ----------

 

 

It's nice of you to try to reinterpret his words to mean something else, but there's nothing there that means they weren't born here.

Ethnic minorities that have UK Citizenship includes families that have been here for multiple generations.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:08 ----------

 

 

Yeah, sorry that I didn't stay in all day yesterday to argue with you on the internet.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:09 ----------

 

 

And without immigration they have a real problem due to the population pyramid inversion.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:11 ----------

 

I'm also highly amused by the attempt to use 'do-gooder' as a derogatory term. Are you right wingers proud of going around doing bad, or perhaps you prefer the term evil?

 

As opposed to the loss of their indigenous population being over run the pyramid inversion is a minor problem.

Immigration doesn't make the indigenous breed more.