Jeffrey Shaw Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Is that the same for every religion? I know plenty of Christians who use their religion sparingly. Do many Christians (or Jews/Hindus/Quakers/etc.) become suicide bombers, then? ---------- Post added 16-06-2015 at 17:29 ---------- So now you DO believe in moderate Islam. Do you even know what you think? Isn't it more relevant what Moslems themselves think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Do you believe that all Muslims actually want to kill all non Muslims? Seriously. Have you ever even met a Muslim? Does moderate Christianity not exist because they all believe in a book that says that adulterers should be stoned to death? You need to use your imagination, you look at it from a non believer point of view. Try this. Firstly you need to assume that God does in fact exist. Then assume that God did speak to Mohammad. Then assume that the Quran is in fact the word of God and its instruction are the way in which you should live your life. Then assume that if you fail to follow the instruction as laid down by God you will not get into paradise. So would you follow Gods word to ensure your place in paradise or ignore God and risk eternity in Hellfire. ---------- Post added 16-06-2015 at 18:17 ---------- I know for a fact that moderate Muslims exist. I work with them on a daily basis. Because you are not a mind reader you can't possibly know what they think. Plenty of very bad people have manged to pull the wool over the eyes of the people surrounding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFrank Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I was watching this discussion on TV between a number of Europeans , .. some of them were Muslim Europeans … To cut the story short, terror and suicide bombings killing innocents were mentioned … One of the guys present said: If I were a Muslim European I would feel it necessary to apologise … My question: when we hear of someone of Islamic background or Islamic connections committing a terrible act, do you think it necessary an innocent Muslim ought to apologise for the pain and stress caused? I hope we can have an informed and civil debate, thanks! I don't think they should apologise if they've done nothing wrong... You can't judge people on the actions of others... I think it would help if extremists were given more of a voice on programs like Question Time, Nick Griffin got the gig, then these people could be scrutinised and challenged by right thinking Muslims and the extremists would be exposed as charlatans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I don't think they should apologise if they've done nothing wrong... You can't judge people on the actions of others... I think it would help if extremists were given more of a voice on programs like Question Time, Nick Griffin got the gig, then these people could be scrutinised and challenged by right thinking Muslims and the extremists would be exposed as charlatans.... Is a right thinking Muslim one that thinks in a way that you perceive to be acceptable or one that adheres to the word of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I don't think they should apologise if they've done nothing wrong... You can't judge people on the actions of others... I think it would help if extremists were given more of a voice on programs like Question Time, Nick Griffin got the gig, then these people could be scrutinised and challenged by right thinking Muslims and the extremists would be exposed as charlatans.... They would, and we'd all have a big laugh at them for their stone age ideas, but there would still be loads of brainwashed people who would go along with them either for the promise of a paradise afterlife or because they genuinely think that blowing themselves up will destroy Israel/ build Mecca/ provide a promised land whatever. Isn't the bigger question, why would a grammar school educated 17 year old decide that the way forward for him, and his family, isn't to get a well paid job and bring up a family in prosperity...it's to go to the arsend of the world and blow yourself up. Screw loose somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFrank Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Is a right thinking Muslim one that thinks in a way that you perceive to be acceptable or one that adheres to the word of God? I'm an atheist and don't understand religious thinking. But I take your point. The Koran, as I understand it, can be read in different ways to extract a meaning... I think it would help if the Koran was analysed by those who believe and some parts of it dismissed as being of a different time and not relevant... There's much in the Old Testament that seem ridiculously violent by today's standards.. But these sections are widely condemned as crazy and of no relevance.. There needs to be a similar thing with the Koran.. But who will be brave enough to do this I don't know. I have never heard anyone disown some parts of the Koran... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm an atheist and don't understand religious thinking. But I take your point. The Koran, as I understand it, can be read in different ways to extract a meaning... I think it would help if the Koran was analysed by those who believe and some parts of it dismissed as being of a different time and not relevant... There's much in the Old Testament that seem ridiculously violent by today's standards.. But these sections are widely condemned as crazy and of no relevance.. There needs to be a similar thing with the Koran.. But who will be brave enough to do this I don't know. I have never heard anyone disown some parts of the Koran... You are thinking like a non believer. The Quran is the unchanging word of God relevant for all time. So how can someone with a belief in God and a belief that the Quran is the word of God choose to dismiss that word. God would have known about how the world would change over time so would have given instruction in the Quran on which bits can be dismissed over time, there are no such instruction so God clearly intended for it to be followed as it is for all time. Changing it would mean overriding God or accepting that God was infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm an atheist and don't understand religious thinking. But I take your point. The Koran, as I understand it, can be read in different ways to extract a meaning... I think it would help if the Koran was analysed by those who believe and some parts of it dismissed as being of a different time and not relevant... There's much in the Old Testament that seem ridiculously violent by today's standards.. But these sections are widely condemned as crazy and of no relevance.. There needs to be a similar thing with the Koran.. But who will be brave enough to do this I don't know. I have never heard anyone disown some parts of the Koran... my bold= Nail on the head, it's about understanding that at the time the Quraan was revealed Muslims and people of other religions were at war. This is the reason there are passages stating kill the unbelievers and it should be read in the right context. The passages will never be deleted but it's down to the individual reading it to realise that it doesn't apply in this era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFrank Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You are thinking like a non believer. The Quran is the unchanging word of God relevant for all time. So how can someone with a belief in God and a belief that the Quran is the word of God choose to dismiss that word. God would have known about how the world would change over time so would have given instruction in the Quran on which bits can be dismissed over time, there are no such instruction so God clearly intended for it to be followed as it is for all time. Changing it would mean overriding God or accepting that God was infallible. I agree... things will never change while there's that kind of belief... Its a problem that will be very difficult to resolve. I wish people would think it through... There's obviously no God. Its all made up by primitive men........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You are thinking like a non believer. The Quran is the unchanging word of God relevant for all time. So how can someone with a belief in God and a belief that the Quran is the word of God choose to dismiss that word. God would have known about how the world would change over time so would have given instruction in the Quran on which bits can be dismissed over time, there are no such instruction so God clearly intended for it to be followed as it is for all time. Changing it would mean overriding God or accepting that God was infallible. Get back under your rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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