What should a British Muslim do?

[Flanker7]

No it wasn't, very specific blame and punishment was dispensed - on the English. There would be a ban on all football if it was to be done collectively.

 

The English fans as a collective was blamed and punishment was dispensed to/on them because they could be clearly identified. The Europeans call football hooliganism 'The British Disease'. The Union jack is used by hooligan firms all over the continent as the symbol of their creed. British fans at British games routinely ignore drunkenness, foul and abusive language generally, threats and obscene gestures to rival fans. They also fail to voice their opposition to violence and assaults.

 

The above was/is also true of child sexual exploitation. But things are changing as a result of recent prosecutions. This is the way forward and we should not shy away from it. As Zamo says Muslims should distance themselves from the violent wing of their group . . or be included in it.

[loraward]

The fact that you're stating what "British Muslims should do". Makes me believe that you think they all need to change their behaviour, which rather implies that they have a common behaviour to change.

Because there are extremists who share beliefs with normal people, you think that all the normal people should change their behaviour and beliefs.

 

Yet you're going to ignore the pro life terrorists, simply because, well, it appears to be that it's inconvenient to your argument. They're not attacking "us" you say. So blowing up abortion clinics is okay I guess.

 

According to the reports he was a normal 17 year old Muslim weeks before blowing himself up. If a club, religion, school, create a disproportionate number of extremists terrorist then its right to conclude that it must have something to do with their teaching or practices.

[Marx]

I see children being sent to madrassas after school every day of the week where they are segregated and filled full of Islam; the proper version no doubt. It seems they get a diet of Muslim culture and nothing else. This isn't multiculturalism, it is voluntary segregation and indoctrination Is there any wonder that hundreds of them are joining isis? What else are they being prepared for other than to serve Allah?

[Zamo]

No it wasn't, very specific blame and punishment was dispensed - on the English. There would be a ban on all football if it was to be done collectively.

 

It was a collective punishment because it applied to all English clubs and fans regardless of individual guilt.

 

No doubt many bleated about it being unfair because it was 'only a minority' but it is irrelevant. The fact is that a community will eventually turn on a problem family if they keep hurting others and fail to get their house in order. English football was the problem family in the European football community and our failure to address the problem led to us being rejected from the community... what else could we expect?

[Cyclone]

According to the reports he was a normal 17 year old Muslim weeks before blowing himself up. If a club, religion, school, create a disproportionate number of extremists terrorist then its right to conclude that it must have something to do with their teaching or practices.

 

So this applies to Christianity and atheism as well then. In fact, is there a single group that doesn't produce murderers sometimes?

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 12:52 ----------

 

When did the blowing up of an abortion clinic last happen?

 

When did it last happen in Britain?

 

Are you trying to justify it with "it didn't happen here" or that it wasn't in the last few weeks?

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 12:54 ----------

 

I see children being sent to madrassas after school every day of the week where they are segregated and filled full of Islam; the proper version no doubt. It seems they get a diet of Muslim culture and nothing else. This isn't multiculturalism, it is voluntary segregation and indoctrination Is there any wonder that hundreds of them are joining isis? What else are they being prepared for other than to serve Allah?

 

Ethnically Chinese children are often sent to Chinese school at weekends. So what? They spend all week immersed in British culture, it's good that they have some time to learn about their own ethnic heritage.

[L00b]

So this applies to Christianity and atheism as well then.

It cannot apply to atheism. Atheism is non-prescriptive. Same false logic as Chris Sleeps' football hooliganism. Neither football fandom nor atheism promote core existential values that can be interpreted to run counter to modern life in western, essentially secular (in practice if not constitutional) countries.

 

It may well apply to Christianity, particularly (typically US-) Christian fundies on which extremist Islam has nothing. Different(-ish) prescriptive beardy being and scriptures, same purposive agenda.

 

But since the thread is about British Muslism, and since I can't remember the last time I even heard about Christian fundies posing a threat in the UK (aside from Northern Ireland)...

Edited June 15, 2015 by L00b

[Cyclone]

Does moderate Islam promote core existential values that run counter to our modern liberal democracy?

[Chris_Sleeps]

I see children being sent to madrassas after school every day of the week where they are segregated and filled full of Islam; the proper version no doubt. It seems they get a diet of Muslim culture and nothing else.

Like Sunday School.

 

What would you suggest as a solution? I acknowledge that there is a problem of being raised just in a narrow world view of one religion, but I don't know a simple answer.

 

I've written this before, about a Muslim girl I used to work with. Her knowledge of Christianity was virtually non-existant. She was suprised that Christians think Jesus was the same as God. She had no idea what the Pope was. Or Immaculate Conception. Her ignorance was outstanding.

It was a collective punishment

A collective punishment that only applied to one set of people. Okay.

[L00b]

Does moderate Islam promote core existential values that run counter to our modern liberal democracy?

You missed 'can be interpreted' in there, I think

[Alan Ladd]

I think adherents to all monotheistic religions have cause to apologize. The history of Christianity, Judaeism and Islam is long and bloody.

 

It is time that adherents to these nonsensical myths took a step back, used their brains and embraced the truth.

 

Its all nonsense, there is no god, never has been one never will be.

 

There is more evidence of the existence of leprechauns. Live your life on your own terms, you were born, you live and you die, when you die you either rot or they burn you. Either way your atoms enrich the earth. Chill, have a drink, make love.