This sicked me, but should the Ambulance service answer questions too?

[Eater Sundae]

Presumably someone within the Ambulance/Paramedic system has the job of prioritizing the calls.

 

They must have some criteria on which to make these decisions, and they should follow that. Whatever the criteria are, they must still be dependent, to some extent, on the information they receive from whoever called them in the first place. Also, I presume (but don't know) that if additional urgent cases keep being called in, then a current less urgent case could keep being pushed further back in the queue. Can this happen?

 

(Particularly) because this is a very high profile case, I would expect there will be some sort of enquiry to determine if mistakes were made, and/or if systems can be improved. (Although I'm generally wary of knee-jerk reactions to specific events, because the changes they create may be worse overall than the perceived problem).

 

tzijlstra was spot on. If we are prepared to spend a lot more on the service, we will be able to run with more slack which will reduce the risk of a shortfall at any busy time. it doesn't mean that this would be a good use of limited resources. The people who decide how health service money is allocated have a pretty impossible and thankless task, IMO, and I wish them well. They know that every decision to help one part of the service will impact negatively on all the other parts as less money is available

[tzijlstra]

Link added to my first post.

 

I understand if they were too stretched at the time and there as some more heinous issues unfolding, but the call to 999 was assessed as a lower a priority. This implies that if this had not happened they would have attended, thus they made a mistake that could have impacted the outcome and saved a life.

 

But even then, making a call a lower priority is only done because of a lack of capacity. It isn't like an ambulance was sitting along the roadside with the paramedics eating their McDonalds during shift-hours.

 

Without knowing the ins and outs of the case, ie. hearing the initial call, having a full and working understanding of the situation in that particular dispatch center and an overview of other cases it is nigh on impossible to judge this case.

[Obelix]

Yes and it does.

 

If you are unconcious, if you have chest pains and breathing problems you are certainly going to the front of the queue, or at least ahead of someone whos got "only" a broken leg or arm.

 

Thing was it was evening. Bars will be emptying? Few inebriated people about? OR perhaps there was a road accident and that tied up a few ambulances. Soon as that happens a simple broken ankle is going to go from a 20 minute wait to over an hour - I've sat with a patient like that close on three hours now waiting for an ambulance at chucking out time when all the drunkards are puking into the gutters and passing out..

 

If the caller failed to mention that she was pregnant, then I can well beleive this being pushed down the priority list into the hour or more wait times.

[PeteMorris]

Yes and it does.

 

If you are unconcious, if you have chest pains and breathing problems you are certainly going to the front of the queue, or at least ahead of someone whos got "only" a broken leg or arm.

 

Thing was it was evening. Bars will be emptying? Few inebriated people about? OR perhaps there was a road accident and that tied up a few ambulances. Soon as that happens a simple broken ankle is going to go from a 20 minute wait to over an hour - I've sat with a patient like that close on three hours now waiting for an ambulance at chucking out time when all the drunkards are puking into the gutters and passing out..

 

If the caller failed to mention that she was pregnant, then I can well beleive this being pushed down the priority list into the hour or more wait times.

 

I would imagine if she'd been stamped on in the stomach and chest repeatedly, as is alleged (hence the unborn child dying), that would have counted as chest/abdomen pains.

 

In my experience, when phoning an ambulance, they ask pretty exhaustive questions about the the patient, and generally won't take a wishy-washy ambiguous answer. So I still find it hard to believe the call was not given a higher priority. But who am I?

[Obelix]

But that's not going to be cardiac pain which is what they are really worried about. Anyone who suddenly presents with severe chest pains, and a few other related symptoms is going to go to the very front of the queue, someone with sore ribs isn't the same priority.

 

This presumes that there is a queue of people of course - they won't hold an ambulance in reserve and make someone with lesser injuries wait - it'll only end up triaging like this if demand for an ambulance outstrips supply.

[PeteMorris]

But that's not going to be cardiac pain which is what they are really worried about. Anyone who suddenly presents with severe chest pains, and a few other related symptoms is going to go to the very front of the queue, someone with sore ribs isn't the same priority.

 

This presumes that there is a queue of people of course - they won't hold an ambulance in reserve and make someone with lesser injuries wait - it'll only end up triaging like this if demand for an ambulance outstrips supply.

 

It would be interesting to hear the recording of the emergency call....Don't they record them all these days?

[Daven]

I wonder what the criteria for the incident to be classed as a lower priority is. Would they have turned up eventually?....or just not bother?....70mins seems a bit excessive to me. If it had been in some isolated village in the back of beyond, I could have maybe understood the delay....But not in London...

 

I think your post is unfair.

A 'low priority' call means that an ambulance will turn up but not immediately. This category may have a 2-4 hour window.The caller will have been told to call again if the casualtys condition deteriorates.

Every call has to be allocated a degree of urgency and the most urgent are dealt with straight away.

70 minutes waiting for a low priority is acceptable but if the call handler assessed incorrectly then there is just cause to complain. However, the call handler can only allocate the urgency by what information the caller gives.

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2015 at 15:10 ----------

 

The problem is actually exacerbated in a large city because there are more people using this service and for minor ailments where a taxi would be more appropriate.

 

The length of time from receiving the emergency call to the service vehicle arriving on scene is also very much dependent on the level of traffic in their way.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Daven

[monkey104]

It's amazing how we all feel free to make comment with regards the service despite the fact we know nothing about the way calls are graded, we don't know what was said to the person receiving the call , we don't know how many paramedics or ambulances were on duty ( all of which affect the level and type of service we receive.

[Daven]

It's amazing how we all feel free to make comment with regards the service despite the fact we know nothing about the way calls are graded, we don't know what was said to the person receiving the call , we don't know how many paramedics or ambulances were on duty ( all of which affect the level and type of service we receive.

 

When has not being in possession of all the facts ever stopped the keyboard warriors being judge and jury ?

[Berberis]

When has not being in possession of all the facts ever stopped the keyboard warriors being judge and jury ?

 

I resent that remark. I started this thread using the most up to date information on the case as it stands. Yes there may be more information that exonerates the Ambulance service to come, but as yet all we know is what they have released.

 

What we do know is, a woman was violently attacked.

A call was made to the ambulance service which was downgraded in importance, for reasons unknown.

At least one more call was made to the ambulance service but still no ambulance arrived.

Over an hour later the police, giving up on the paramedics arriving, took it upon themselves to take this woman to the hospital.

Her baby later died and the woman miscarried.

 

I for one would like to know why the ambulance service did not respond quicker. Even if the reason is completely acceptable, something went wrong and a baby died.