This is terrorism. Not a hate crime!!

[Zamo]

my bold=

How exactly will the people be reacting?

 

They will react as you said you would react if on the receiving end of an indiscriminate attack... they'll use violence back. Surely you know enough of our species to know that yourself?

 

People like you need to get your heads out of your back side and stop stereotyping all Muslims.

 

It isn't stereotyping to point out that Muslims perpetuate a faith/culture with an extremism problem. Muslims choose to carry on 'as is' despite the extremism and therefore have a share of the responsibility for the extremism even if they don't proactively encourage or partake in it.

[Guest]

White Americans are the biggest terror threat in the US, killing more people in attacks than Muslims or any other group in the last 14 years, according to a study done by the New America Foundation.

 

the group looked into the 26 attacks on US soil that it defined as terror and found that 19 of those attacks were done by non-Muslims. All the studied attacks are post-9/11.

 

Since then, 48 people have been killed by extremists who are not Muslim, compared to 26 killed by people who claimed to be jihadist. The non-Muslim groups include right-wing, anti-government organizations and white-supremacist groups.

 

Last week’s Charleston shooting — after which reports surfaced of the confessed shooter’s white-supremacist ideology — was included in the count.

 

Oh dear..isn't that a surprise..not.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-people-are-the-biggest-terror-threat-in-the-us-report-finds-10342987.html

[Zamo]

Oh dear..isn't that a surprise..not.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-people-are-the-biggest-terror-threat-in-the-us-report-finds-10342987.html

 

Muslims make up about 1.5% of the population in the US. Factor that in and you see how disproportionate the extremism/terrorism problem is within Muslim culture... it nurtures it like no other.

 

Not that the US doesn't have it's own home-grown religiously encouraged extremism problem - one we don't share in Britain. For us in Britain this means the disproportionate level of religious/culturally induced extremism is even more acute within the Muslim community.

 

Your disingenuous attempt to use dodge stats to imply there is no Muslim extremism problem cant last up to 2 minutes of scrutiny. We have every right to point out a very real problem with Muslim extremism and to ask Muslims to take collective responsibility for modernising in order to reduce the extremism that is a byproduct of their nurturing. The fact that they do not have a monopoly on the problem is irrelevant.

[Halibut]

Muslims make up about 1.5% of the population in the US. Factor that in and you see how disproportionate the extremism/terrorism problem is within Muslim culture... it nurtures it like no other.

 

Not that the US doesn't have it's own home-grown religiously encouraged extremism problem - one we don't share in Britain. For us in Britain this means the disproportionate level of religious/culturally induced extremism is even more acute within the Muslim community.

 

Your disingenuous attempt to use dodge stats to imply there is no Muslim extremism problem cant last up to 2 minutes of scrutiny. We have every right to point out a very real problem with Muslim extremism and to ask Muslims to take collective responsibility for modernising in order to reduce the extremism that is a byproduct of their nurturing. The fact that they do not have a monopoly on the problem is irrelevant.

 

Where's the bit where you condemn white supremacist racists? I must have missed it.

[BarryRiley]

It is 100% terrorism. However I've encountered far more racism towards the white race in the media than any other race. We constantly hear about racist attacks on black people, for example the shooting of Michael Brown was considered a racist attack and caused huge riots. It's impossible to read about an encounter between the police and the black community without race being thrown in. However, when was the last time you heard of a racist attack on a white person by a black person. Is it not happening?

 

The media, in particular the BBC have a very clear agenda when it comes to race reporting.

[milquetoast1]

Where's the bit where you condemn white supremacist racists? I must have missed it.

 

Are you suggesting that Zamo is a white supremacist racist?

 

Anyway, I think you're missing the point of the arguments made by Zamo and others.

 

No sensible person is asking Muslims to collectively condemn/apologise for the actions of unpleasant Muslims, that would be counterproductive.

 

But it doesn't make it wrong to suggest that any change to reduce intolerance within a community needs to come from within it.

 

It was somewhat predictable, and sad, that just hours after Cameron had given a speech where he urged people to take responsibility upon themselves, we learned that the husbands of the wives that had set off to Syria had decided to blame everybody else. This follows the case of the three girls that went to Syria, where the families decided to point the finger at the authorities and then it turns out that one of the father's had taken his daughter on extremist rallies. The father who had said on oath that he had no idea where his daughter might get her extremist ideas from. Given the roots of the problem I've even had denial from SF members here that certain hate preachers are in fact hate preachers.

 

Clue. Preach extremist ideas and you might get extremist actions.

 

Asking for a bit of self awareness is not the same as asking for collective apologies.

 

My dad stopped visiting mosques about 10 years ago when it became self evident to him that the ideas being promoted there had evolved from the very same ones that had forced him and my mum to run away to the UK when I was little. It's not like it's difficult to find videos and articles of preachers that have toured mosques and Universities with their very unpleasant ideas about about non-Muslims, gays, women and the "West". The fact that these people have been invited, and the articles/videos circulated by Muslims in the UK, shows precisely the lack of self awareness needed.

 

The comparison with white racists in the US is appropriate. I noted with some amusement the same sense of denial and grievance from Fox News and others who tried to pretend that the church shootings were attack on Christianity. White racists don't need to apologise for those shootings, but they do need more collective self awareness and recognition that preaching hatred can result in actions.

 

I do sense some positives. Fox News seemed rather sheepish when they tried to pretend the racist shootings were something else, there has been the debate on the confederate flag and an enormous amount of finger pointing at certain websites and the language of some media organisations. Over here we had the similar sheepish looks from Cage after Mohammed Emwaz was revealed, and the tours of hate preachers has dried up. I do sense that there is some collective self awareness at last.

Edited June 25, 2015 by milquetoast1