Terrorist attacks in Tunisia & Kuwait. "At least" 27 and 10 dead.

[I1L2T3]

Can anyone explain why Tony Blair was getting paid as the Middle East Peace Envoy when all this started and continued ?

What did he do to try and bring peace ?

Why wasn't he sacked ?

 

Who knows.

 

It's like getting a criminally insane arsonist to put out his own fires.

 

The bloke is evil.

[harvey19]

Why not research the answers to these fascinating question and then come back and present your findings?

 

I realised that is what I should do and so deleted the post.

[Jonny5]

Well I won't be supporting that suggestion.

 

And no atheist, no matter how educated they think they are, will ever succeed in getting me to reject my religious beliefs.

I don't think people should reject their religion. Be nice if they did but people can believe in any old cobblers that they want to. That's what freedom mandates.

 

But what we (humanity) need to be aiming for is a future where religion no longer exists. It's too dangerous and too easily used as a force for evil.

 

Need to get the American drones to drop the Origin of Species, not bombs. Would be more useful in the long term.

[Zamo]

Great post. This is kind of what I was driving at earlier. The idea that all young Muslims are prone to becoming extremists is just wrong. They're people like you and me and if we treat them any different then we will force more down the wrong route. This is what ISIS want. They want the west to and the people in the west to turn against Muslims.

 

Sad, but all the people blindly raging against Muslims without trying to understand any of the nuances of what is happening are ultimately helping ISIS.

 

Of course not 'all' young Muslims will become extremist but that doesn't mean they aren't 'prone' to it. The numbers tell us they are... thousands joining extremist groups, 40% wanting Sharia Law etc.

 

You are right though that IS are trying to cause division between Muslims and non-Muslims and to provoke fighting. But asking people to keep turning the other cheek is a strategy that will not stand the test of time. Sooner or later there will be retaliation. The only way to stop the conflict we are heading towards is for the extremism to fade. That means starving the extremists of new recruits and support, which requires ordinary Muslims to reform their religion and propagated something that isn't leaving their children ripe for extremist picking.

 

As for understanding the nuances... I've no interest and nor have most people. I want religious freedom where I can go about my business in blissful ignorance of other people's ridiculous religious choices. The extremism from the Islamic religion is a breach of the religious freedom principle and asking people to surrender some of their religious freedom with extra tolerance, concessions and deeper understanding is unacceptable.

[harvey19]

Why not research the answers to these fascinating question and then come back and present your findings?

 

After researching the subject I think people need to read the newspapers reports on Google to get a full picture.

It appears that he was unsackable and nothing to do with his failure at bringing about peace why he finally went.

Edited June 28, 2015 by harvey19

[Bigthumb]

I can't agree with your argument but do understand exactly what you are saying.

 

The downside I can see is massive anger against the west, more radicalisation and and more home grown attacks against us here. Have to remember that the current phase of low levels of radicalisation has been driven by anger over western intervention.

 

It would solve nothing

 

How do you know what is causing radicalisation? We have no evidence to show it isn't a load of brain washed nutters who want to live under the repression of their religion......and kill anyone who doesn't conform.

 

I don't remember a huge backlash from Japan after a couple of nukes flattened Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Bigthumb

[L00b]

You were less than keen about the nuclear option (although I suspect l00b was making mischief) but does it matter really if civilians are nuked, shot or gassed? Still dead if we use any sort of military action. It's unavoidable.

I was...and I wasn't.

 

ISIS are extremely wealthy and control a non-trivial acreage of Middle Eastern sand dunes, within which life makes North Korea look like Club Med. They are, to all intents and purposes, a country already, and are hell-bent on getting ever larger, with no end in sight. So, a fascist country waging a war of aggression and subjugating conquered lands in ways that would make Himmler blush.

 

The thing is, ISIS absolutely do not engage with traditional statist apparel such as diplomatic representations and talks, and other nation state conventions such as e.g. exchanging prisoners. They conquer by, live by, rule by and only understand, force.

 

In that context -and I've long said this- the only way for the West to 'win', and I mean that in as generic a sense as possible (whether we're happy to let them keep what they've got, or wipe them out, or anything in-between: same difference), is to out-terrorise the terrorists to the extent of taking all of the wind out of their sails, and then the sails, and the hull as well while we're at it. Basically, and in really simple terms, being stronger than them, making sure they know it, and are and stay said about it.

 

Doesn't matter how we go about it, this being an exceptional case wherein the end truly justifies whatever means: assassination of wealthy supporters, deportation (to Syria) of families of positively-ID'd ISIS volunteers, the full MI5+MI6 works on 'borderline' imams, maybe all the way to Hercules-assisted Med-diving contests for positively-ID'd (and foiled) terrorists. Low yield tactical nukes, yes, that was mischief...ish. Wouldn't win us any friends, that is for sure. But it's damn cost-effective and would remind all sorts of barking and snapping dogs (Putin amongst them) to think twice about coming for a poo in our front garden.

 

ISIS are giving a war, and the knocking at the door is getting loud and insistent. War is never pretty, fair, welcome, etc. and whoever wages it by the rules will keep losing until the rule book is thrown out. That much has been demonstrated, clear as day, by ISIS, Putin, Assad, Israel and more, that today it is he who wields and uses a big stick who calls the tune. Time we did our own using and calling. Rule #1 of warfare: be disruptive. When the engagement tactic or strategy isn't going your way, change the rules.

 

Or just accept defeat (in practical terms), stop going on holidays pretty much anywhere in and around the Med (save for Italy, France and Spain) and travelling for business or pleasure to over 75% of the globe for any purposes, and fence ourselves in à la Israel.

 

I guess I'm just fed up of ISIS, Al-Shabab and all that ilk running rampant everywhere, getting ever more disruptive to our way of life by the day (and by 'our', I mean that of everyone who just wants to be left in peace to make a living and get by, like Tunisian Joe Averages who just want to eke an annual living out of 4 months' worth of tourism season...guess it's gonna be bread and water for them this year), without any end in sight.

Edited June 28, 2015 by L00b

[cuttsie]

How does it sound coordinated? There are ISIS attacks every single day.

 

As for Tunisia, I don't understand the mentality of someone who would holiday in a Muslim country in the current climate.

North Cyprus any one?

[convert]

I was...and I wasn't.

 

ISIS are extremely wealthy and control a non-trivial acreage of Middle Eastern sand dunes, within which life makes North Korea look like Club Med. They are, to all intents and purposes, a country already, and are hell-bent on getting ever larger, with no end in sight. So, a fascist country waging a war of aggression and subjugating conquered lands in ways that would make Himmler blush.

 

The thing is, ISIS absolutely do not engage with traditional statist apparel such as diplomatic representations and talks, and other nation state conventions such as e.g. exchanging prisoners. They conquer by, live by, rule by and only understand, force.

 

In that context -and I've long said this- the only way for the West to 'win', and I mean that in as generic a sense as possible (whether we're happy to let them keep what they've got, or wipe them out, or anything in-between: same difference), is to out-terrorise the terrorists to the extent of taking all of the wind out of their sails, and then the sails, and the hull as well while we're at it. Basically, and in really simple terms, being stronger than them, making sure they know it, and are and stay said about it.

 

Doesn't matter how we go about it, this being an exceptional case wherein the end truly justifies whatever means: assassination of wealthy supporters, deportation (to Syria) of families of positively-ID'd ISIS volunteers, the full MI5+MI6 works on 'borderline' imams, maybe all the way to Hercules-assisted Med-diving contests for positively-ID'd (and foiled) terrorists. Low yield tactical nukes, yes, that was mischief...ish. Wouldn't win us any friends, that is for sure. But it's damn cost-effective and would remind all sorts of barking and snapping dogs (Putin amongst them) to think twice about coming for a poo in our front garden.

 

ISIS are giving a war, and the knocking at the door is getting loud and insistent. War is never pretty, fair, welcome, etc. and whoever wages it by the rules will keep losing until the rule book is thrown out. That much has been demonstrated, clear as day, by ISIS, Putin, Assad, Israel and more, that today it is he who wields and uses a big stick who calls the tune. Time we did our own using and calling. Rule #1 of warfare: be disruptive. When the engagement tactic or strategy isn't going your way, change the rules.

 

Or just accept defeat (in practical terms), stop going on holidays pretty much anywhere in and around the Med (save for Italy, France and Spain) and travelling for business or pleasure to over 75% of the globe for any purposes, and fence ourselves in à la Israel.

 

I guess I'm just fed up of ISIS, Al-Shabab and all that ilk running rampant everywhere, getting ever more disruptive to our way of life by the day (and by 'our', I mean that of everyone who just wants to be left in peace to make a living and get by, like Tunisian Joe Averages who just want to eke an annual living out of 4 months' worth of tourism season...guess it's gonna be bread and water for them this year), without any end in sight.

 

Bravo, We have some very difficult, and uncomfortable choices to make.

 

I'm not advocating bombing them back to the stone age (I know they're already half way there).

 

To Quote Karl Popper

 

"unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

[Bigthumb]

 

I'm not advocating bombing them back to the stone age (I know they're already half way there).

 

To Quote Karl Popper

 

"unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

 

That only applies to folk who you are not already at war with. As IS has stated its intention of attacking the west and pretty much everyone else on the planet we don't need to worry too much about antagonising them.

 

I trust the rest of the world will wake up to the danger that this load of religious nutcases poses. IS will use whatever weapons they can get their hands on to attack civilisation that doesn't conform to their Islamic idl. If they get nukes they will use them. If they get chemical weapons they will use them. They take no prisoners.

 

We should get together and flatten the whole lot of them including any from this country that want to throw their lot in with them.

 

---------- Post added 28-06-2015 at 11:49 ----------

 

North Cyprus any one?

 

Not for me. Not whilst this is happening.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2689220/From-coast-town-ghost-town-Eerie-images-derelict-houses-hotels-planes-Nicosia-divided-capital-city-world-Turkey-invaded-Cyprus-40-years-ago.html