Is there a growing national consensus for action against ISIL?

[tzijlstra]

You are probably right.

 

When we did fight together it was because we had common enemies in Germany and Japan.

 

BUT, in a broad swathe across Africa from Nigeria in the West to the borders of Iran and Turkey ISIL is on the march.

 

Riots took place only last week in Muslim areas of China.Russia is terrified of another Chechnya.

 

We could, over the next few years see a growing willingness to engage together to fight this menace. A menace possibly as serious as the one that erupted from this area 1500 years ago and led, after a thousand years of conquest, to Islam besieging Vienna.

 

We under rate this menace at our peril.

 

Nice display of a complete misunderstanding of history. It is this exact same interpretation that leads ISIL numpties seeing Britain as an empire that seeks to destroy islam.

[Blaster Bate]

You are probably right.

 

When we did fight together it was because we had common enemies in Germany and Japan.

 

BUT, in a broad swathe across Africa from Nigeria in the West to the borders of Iran and Turkey ISIL is on the march.

 

Riots took place only last week in Muslim areas of China.Russia is terrified of another Chechnya.

 

We could, over the next few years see a growing willingness to engage together to fight this menace. A menace possibly as serious as the one that erupted from this area 1500 years ago and led, after a thousand years of conquest, to Islam besieging Vienna.

 

We under rate this menace at our peril.

Very well put, quite correct.

[unbeliever]

Oh gods not again.

Beating ISIL is not a problem. We have massive military superiority and better trained personnel.

The problem would be, as it always is, winning the peace afterwards.

 

After ISIL have been defeated militarily, you need a large western military presence in the region to keep both peace and law and order for a matter of decades afterwards. Holding elections is the beginning, not the end. You have to build up the infrastructure of a democratic society and that takes at least a generation.

 

ISIL have walked in a taken over to fill power vacuums created by half-arsed western interventions. Yet another half-arsed intervention would only suppress them as long as it lasted.

 

Western governments understand it, but the people do not. Probably because it's never properly explained to them when wars start. The political pressure at home to walk away with the job half done would become overwhelming in only a few years and in the long run nothing would be achieved.

 

It would be far more useful if the west pursues the policies which severely weaken Al Qaeda; which was an intelligence lead long-term program of assassinating the leadership (mostly with drone strikes). The people will support this because it doesn't feel like a war so they soon forget it's going on and leave it alone for as long as it takes.

[Timeh]

Slowly it appears that the nation is gearing up to yet another military intervention in the middle-east. I might be wrong but it seems to me that there is a growing call for action on the ground against ISIL.

 

The difference this time, in my opinion, would be that it could well be a truly international effort. If it is truly UN led and the Russians, Chinese, Americans and most importantly the affected states themselves all take part as well as the EU/NATO than I could condone such a move. If it is to be a unilateral NATO action than I certainly couldn't.

 

Watching and reading mainstream media will have you believe ISIL/ISIS/IS are the real threat when in fact they were manufactured by the good old US of A. and pose zero threat to us in the West. The agenda is oil.

People need to stop being Sheeple. Question whats on the tv or in the paper, research it for yourselves then youll see the lies told by mainstream for what they are, lies to get the governments agenda through to the common people

IS and muslims in general are not our enemy.

[unbeliever]

Watching and reading mainstream media will have you believe ISIL/ISIS/IS are the real threat when in fact they were manufactured by the good old US of A. and pose zero threat to us in the West. The agenda is oil.

People need to stop being Sheeple. Question whats on the tv or in the paper, research it for yourselves then youll see the lies told by mainstream for what they are, lies to get the governments agenda through to the common people

IS and muslims in general are not our enemy.

 

IS have made it abundantly clear that they are our enemy.

It is quite disingenuous to suggest that by making IS the enemy we're making Muslims the enemy. IS is not Islam.

Edited June 29, 2015 by unbeliever

[L00b]

Watching and reading mainstream media will have you believe ISIL/ISIS/IS are the real threat when in fact they were manufactured by the good old US of A. and pose zero threat to us in the West.

Have I just read that right?

 

Relatives of a headless MD, of a few political satirists and jewish shoppers, of 30-odd British tourists, of a few soldiers variously including Lee Rigby and some French paratroops, and of more than a few bus-, train- and tube-riding London and Spanish commuters, all want a word.

 

I've not mentioned relatives of captured journalists, aid workers and of the tens of thousands of martyred Christians, homosexuals and otherwise libertarians, since you're talking about the situation in the West.

 

Have a word with yourself to begin with.

Edited June 29, 2015 by L00b

[Timeh]

IS have made it abundantly clear that they are our enemy.

It is quite disingenuous to suggest that by making IS the enemy we're making Muslims the enemy. IS is not Islam.

 

Very true but sadly some people are thick and will A, Believe what they read in the paper and B, Assume IS represent all muslims and so all muslims could be fair game.

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2015 at 13:24 ----------

 

Have I just read that right?

 

 

I dont know. Did you? Lets see......

[unbeliever]

Very true but sadly some people are thick and will A, Believe what they read in the paper and B, Assume IS represent all muslims and so all muslims could be fair game.

 

Surely leaving IS to continue their campaign is only going to make that issue worse.

[Timeh]

 

Relatives of a headless MD, of a few political satirists and jewish shoppers, of 30-odd British tourists, of a few soldiers variously including Lee Rigby and some French paratroops, and of more than a few bus-, train- and tube-riding London and Spanish commuters who all want a word.

 

.

None of which have anything to do with IS. None of it.

Sure the red tops and the BBC will have you believe all that but thats your fault. You should ignore their propaganda and look for yourself. Until you have im not really interested in discussing it further with you (no offence meant at all with that) so do yourself a favour. Start doing some digging.

[L00b]

I dont know. Did you? Lets see......

"Watching and reading mainstream media will have you believe ISIL/ISIS/IS are the real threat when in fact they pose zero threat to us in the West".

 

You typed it, didn't you?

 

Are you suffering from some cognitive impairment?

 

IS have claimed responsibility for the 30 Britons slaughtered in Tunisia. The guy who decapitated the MD in France sent a selfie of himself holding the head to Syria (not linking on this Forum). I could go on, but just like you I can quite clearly see that it's going to be yet another peeing-in-a-violin-to-get-a-tune exercise with you.

 

IS were initially manufactured indeed, and by whoever is irrelevant: they have long ceased to answer to any control or influence (Western, Middle Eastern...or Far Eastern indeed) after grabbing oil wells, refineries and hard currency and gold deposits in territories under their control. They answer to themselves (and even that's a stretch) and no one else.

Edited June 29, 2015 by L00b