Protest against Austerity Sheffield 8th July

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Protest is a part of democracy.

Even so, does it achieve much other than a self-bestowed inner glow?

[vincentb]

Protest is a part of democracy.

 

Even so, does it achieve much other than a self-bestowed inner glow?

 

It communicates with the government and with the rest of the public, in a much more specific and expressive way than an X on a ballot paper can. Ditto the free press, petitions, supportive demonstrations e.g. remembrance day, membership of campaigning charities and other pressure groups, etc. All important parts of the way our democracy works.

[Alan Ladd]

I have just returned from Greece, I spent time in Athens, Volos, Mykonos so got a fairly wide impression of the issues they are facing.

 

Rows of shops are closed, graffiti everywhere, parks and public spaces overgrown and unkempt, only the international hotels are prospering.

 

People are short of food, have little or no money.

 

The Greek situation shows you what happens when governments ineffectually run economies. When they spend more than they earn.

 

Had austerity been introduced effectively here alongside tax and fiscal improvements they would not be in the fix they are currently.

 

Thank god for austerity, for Cameron, for Osborne for the Tories.

 

Greece is a developed economy that has failed, it could happen anywhere, it could happen here.

 

Dont let these leftie idiots convince you that they have another solution, they have not.

 

Protest against the protest.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

It communicates with the government and with the rest of the public, in a much more specific and expressive way than an X on a ballot paper can. Ditto the free press, petitions, supportive demonstrations e.g. remembrance day, membership of campaigning charities and other pressure groups, etc. All important parts of the way our democracy works.

Even if so, you've not really shown that such protests actually achieve anything.

[Alan Ladd]

Re my bold.

 

Hoist by your own petard woodmally!

 

Bone up on your history to help you with your own understanding. If you believe "democracy" is only about a ballot box every 5 years you are naive in the extreme!

 

Demonstrations are a part of any democratic system and always have been!

Parliament itself would not exist in its present form if people hadn't demonstrated and even broken the law to do it!

 

Swami, all true, so when people who hold opposite views to you, views that in practice actually work, don't be too surprised if we treat you and your mates views with the laughable contempt they deserve.

[Lotusflower]

Swami, all true, so when people who hold opposite views to you, views that in practice actually work, don't be too surprised if we treat you and your mates views with the laughable contempt they deserve.

 

Tell me exactly what views of mine you are referring to.

[Alan Ladd]

Tell me exactly what views of mine you are referring to.

 

Swami, last time we exchanged views you tld me I was on your barred list, are you sure you want to instigate an exchange that will leave you intellectually bereft?

[Anna B]

Really? How about little things like

 

Who sets the level of tax?

What about countries outside the G7?

Where would the money raised go ? back to each country or into a central pot to be doled out across the G7?

If you had a central pot then why should countries in the system receive tax money from other countries?

what happens when there is a change in parliament and a country wishes to leave?

Give me an example where cross border/parliament taxation has worked?.

The "people" you speak of also include the "people" who runs the big organisations as well.

Define "big corporation" that would be included, would this be based on turnover or profit? it either then what is to stop them ferreting money away in a non "collective" country (say Brazil, China, Russia or even Spain - all non G7 countries).

Canada has a corporate tax rate of 15%, Japan has 25%, USA has 35%. Why should a Canadian company suddenly have to pay higher taxes because other countries cant sort out their own finances?

The USA on its own cant sort out a national taxation level between its states, how would you incorporate the Americans into this

 

Anything can be sorted out if the will to do so is there. That's what politicians are supposed to be for.

Of course, we can just carry on as we are, until the big corporations rule the world and can grind us all underfoot...

[phoenixboy]

I have just returned from Greece, I spent time in Athens, Volos, Mykonos so got a fairly wide impression of the issues they are facing.

 

Rows of shops are closed, graffiti everywhere, parks and public spaces overgrown and unkempt, only the international hotels are prospering.

 

People are short of food, have little or no money.

 

The Greek situation shows you what happens when governments ineffectually run economies. When they spend more than they earn.

 

Had austerity been introduced effectively here alongside tax and fiscal improvements they would not be in the fix they are currently.

 

Thank god for austerity, for Cameron, for Osborne for the Tories.

 

Greece is a developed economy that has failed, it could happen anywhere, it could happen here.

 

Dont let these leftie idiots convince you that they have another solution, they have not.

 

Protest against the protest.

 

Balance. Look i dnt think anyone disagrees the welfare state needs looking at. Yet there is a huge amount of wealth in this country and people on one end of spectrum are getting richer, businesses are profitable yet that money is not going back into the pockets of the majority. Hence why the state is subsidising the wealthy!

people aint daft and can see whats going on, so smashing the poor, vulnerable and disabled when the government need cash is not only solution.

U may have been in greece but u dont seem clued up.

I think youll find the greeks have rejected austerity and voted in the ballot box to essentially leave the euro, as the people are sick of been kicked around by wealthy creditors.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:04 ----------

 

Really? How about little things like

 

Who sets the level of tax?

What about countries outside the G7?

Where would the money raised go ? back to each country or into a central pot to be doled out across the G7?

If you had a central pot then why should countries in the system receive tax money from other countries?

what happens when there is a change in parliament and a country wishes to leave?

Give me an example where cross border/parliament taxation has worked?.

The "people" you speak of also include the "people" who runs the big organisations as well.

Define "big corporation" that would be included, would this be based on turnover or profit? it either then what is to stop them ferreting money away in a non "collective" country (say Brazil, China, Russia or even Spain - all non G7 countries).

Canada has a corporate tax rate of 15%, Japan has 25%, USA has 35%. Why should a Canadian company suddenly have to pay higher taxes because other countries cant sort out their own finances?

The USA on its own cant sort out a national taxation level between its states, how would you incorporate the Americans into this

 

Anything can be sorted out if the will to do so is there. That's what politicians are supposed to be for.

Of course, we can just carry on as we are, until the big corporations rule the world and can grind us all underfoot...

 

Tax businesses more. Its the best solutuon. If every business over a certain size paid a flat rate we would not be having this discussion. Thats not some leftie loony talk, common sense.

[Eater Sundae]

What an idiot you are!

 

Why should we all lose services and benefits to pay the greed of bankers?

 

They ****ed up the economy with their assumption that house prices would continue to increase at ridiculous levels - when people stopped paying their 125% mortgages.......that's when the Banking Crisis began.

 

Learn you fool!

 

---------- Post added 01-07-2015 at 00:11 ----------

 

 

The country has got the money - it just chooses not to collect the tax revenue from those that can avoid paying it.

 

Why do people keep blaming other poor people for the mess of the country when it's not the case?

 

So no blame's to be attached to the people who borrowed 125% of the value of their house?

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:36 ----------

 

Balance. Look i dnt think anyone disagrees the welfare state needs looking at. Yet there is a huge amount of wealth in this country and people on one end of spectrum are getting richer, businesses are profitable yet that money is not going back into the pockets of the majority. Hence why the state is subsidising the wealthy!

people aint daft and can see whats going on, so smashing the poor, vulnerable and disabled when the government need cash is not only solution.

U may have been in greece but u dont seem clued up.

I think youll find the greeks have rejected austerity and voted in the ballot box to essentially leave the euro, as the people are sick of been kicked around by wealthy creditors.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:04 ----------

 

 

Tax businesses more. Its the best solutuon. If every business over a certain size paid a flat rate we would not be having this discussion. Thats not some leftie loony talk, common sense.

 

On what basis do you tax them?

 

Turnover? Why should very efficient businesses who make their profit by making a very small margin on a very high turnover be penalized?

 

Profit? What's to stop multinationals (as some already do) putting their head office and their technical design overseas, such that each outpost has to pay it for its technical support, and actually make little or no profit in each outpost?

 

There are just a few basics as for as tax is concerned:

 

It has to be seen to be fair (as viewed by enough of the people who vote)

 

It has to be collectable.

 

and

 

Watch out for unforeseen consequences, especially when adjusting taxes in an attempt to modify behavior. (eg, increasing taxes on cigarettes to reduce smoking, resulting in an increased incentive towards a black market in cigarettes, or, the introduction of TESSAs to incentivize people to save resulting in banks and building societies to offer correspondingly low interest rates in the knowledge that people will come to them anyway).