Protest against Austerity Sheffield 8th July

[Lotusflower]

Swami, last time we exchanged views you tld me I was on your barred list, are you sure you want to instigate an exchange that will leave you intellectually bereft?

 

Don't flatter yourself! I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Since you have chosen to ignore my question (again) and deliver another of your tedious insults you can go back on that list and stay there.

Oh, one thing before I go...I doubt my intellect would be challenged by someone who can't spell told. There's an o in it!

[harvey19]

Just a point I thought was worth considering is that the interest rate on a mortgage in the 1980s was 14.50%.

[phoenixboy]

So no blame's to be attached to the people who borrowed 125% of the value of their house?

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:36 ----------

 

Balance. Look i dnt think anyone disagrees the welfare state needs looking at. Yet there is a huge amount of wealth in this country and people on one end of spectrum are getting richer, businesses are profitable yet that money is not going back into the pockets of the majority. Hence why the state is subsidising the wealthy!

people aint daft and can see whats going on, so smashing the poor, vulnerable and disabled when the government need cash is not only solution.

U may have been in greece but u dont seem clued up.

I think youll find the greeks have rejected austerity and voted in the ballot box to essentially leave the euro, as the people are sick of been kicked around by wealthy creditors.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:04 ----------

 

 

On what basis do you tax them?

 

Turnover? Why should very efficient businesses who make their profit by making a very small margin on a very high turnover be penalized?

 

Profit? What's to stop multinationals (as some already do) putting their head office and their technical design overseas, such that each outpost has to pay it for its technical support, and actually make little or no profit in each outpost?

 

There are just a few basics as for as tax is concerned:

 

It has to be seen to be fair (as viewed by enough of the people who vote)

 

It has to be collectable.

 

and

 

Watch out for unforeseen consequences, especially when adjusting taxes in an attempt to modify behavior. (eg, increasing taxes on cigarettes to reduce smoking, resulting in an increased incentive towards a black market in cigarettes, or, the introduction of TESSAs to incentivize people to save resulting in banks and building societies to offer correspondingly low interest rates in the knowledge that people will come to them anyway).

 

Close loopholes is a good start. If you make profit in this country pay tax in this country. Go by revenue and employee number. 250 employees or 22 million turnover. Its fundamentally a big business problem.

Regulate the banking system. Better transparency. All helps.

[sheffbag]

Really? How about little things like

 

Who sets the level of tax?

What about countries outside the G7?

Where would the money raised go ? back to each country or into a central pot to be doled out across the G7?

If you had a central pot then why should countries in the system receive tax money from other countries?

what happens when there is a change in parliament and a country wishes to leave?

Give me an example where cross border/parliament taxation has worked?.

The "people" you speak of also include the "people" who runs the big organisations as well.

Define "big corporation" that would be included, would this be based on turnover or profit? it either then what is to stop them ferreting money away in a non "collective" country (say Brazil, China, Russia or even Spain - all non G7 countries).

Canada has a corporate tax rate of 15%, Japan has 25%, USA has 35%. Why should a Canadian company suddenly have to pay higher taxes because other countries cant sort out their own finances?

The USA on its own cant sort out a national taxation level between its states, how would you incorporate the Americans into this

 

Anything can be sorted out if the will to do so is there. That's what politicians are supposed to be for.

Of course, we can just carry on as we are, until the big corporations rule the world and can grind us all underfoot...

 

So in short - you have no argument or rational answer.

 

You said that you could see no reason why it couldn't be done. I gave you 10 points and your response is just to say "Anything can be sorted out if the will to do so is there" Not really tackling the issues is it? You haven't even answered any of the scenarios, not even if it would apply only to G7 countries or not.

 

Politicians are there to serve the people of the country who elected them. So if I was a Canadian company and all of a sudden my government agreed to hike my business tax from 15% to 25% (a 66% increase) then why should my business pay more money to support a company in Japan?

 

Big companies / organisation have always ruled the world and always will. Be it a financial/commercial company (present), the factory owners (Victorian), the lord of the land (medieval) There has always been a ruler and a downtrodden worker.

Edited July 6, 2015 by sheffbag

[Alan Ladd]

Don't flatter yourself! I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Since you have chosen to ignore my question (again) and deliver another of your tedious insults you can go back on that list and stay there.

Oh, one thing before I go...I doubt my intellect would be challenged by someone who can't spell told. There's an o in it!

 

Never an iisult smarmie, more a kwestion?

 

Schpelling s never bin my strongpant.

 

Like comon sense int yours.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 18:07 ----------

 

Balance. Look i dnt think anyone disagrees the welfare state needs looking at. Yet there is a huge amount of wealth in this country and people on one end of spectrum are getting richer, businesses are profitable yet that money is not going back into the pockets of the majority. Hence why the state is subsidising the wealthy!

people aint daft and can see whats going on, so smashing the poor, vulnerable and disabled when the government need cash is not only solution.

U may have been in greece but u dont seem clued up.

I think youll find the greeks have rejected austerity and voted in the ballot box to essentially leave the euro, as the people are sick of been kicked around by wealthy creditors.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:04 ----------

 

 

Tax businesses more. Its the best solutuon. If every business over a certain size paid a flat rate we would not be having this discussion. Thats not some leftie loony talk, common sense.

 

"The Greeks being kicked about by wealthy creditors" is an interesting viewpoint, they have received massive financial input from the rest of Europe, mostly in grants but equally in loans. They have an absolute cultural opposition to paying tax, any tax, and are quite comfortable to take money from any source as long as they dont have to pay it back, they are the scroungers of Europe.

 

I'm with the Germans on this, they should stop pumping money into a system that is corrupt from top to bottom.

[Vague_Boy]

But of course the cowardly Tories disrespectfully neglected (deliberately avoided) to tell the electorate what they were going to cut.

 

Just the Conservatives?

 

General Election 2015: Labour and Tories both accused of hiding impact of planned spending cuts from the public

 

Labour former Cabinet minister Alan Milburn said all parties had a 'responsibility' to be honest with voters about the impact on society of their cuts.

 

The Labour former Cabinet minister said all parties had a “responsibility” to be honest with voters about the impact on society of their cuts. “If you have been through a period of economic turbulence and the books are still not balanced, the challenge for all the political parties is to prove they have both the competence and the plans to deliver. Detail here may not be the politicians’ friend, but it is the voters’ friend,” he said. “For both Ed Balls and George Osborne, there is an equal necessity to spell out exactly how they aim to balance the books, not just when.”

 

The Independent, Tuesday 31 March 2015 [LINK]

 

If people were [a] opposed to cuts and uncertain of Tory plans, would it be likely that they would vote for them?

 

(The answer, in case you were wondering, is "no".)

[Mindbending]

Just pleased we have a forward thinking progressive government capable and strong enough to make tough decisions for future generations. The alternative was Ed and his merry band of 'live for now' crowd pleasers. The Tories aren't perfect, but compared to Labour they are at least credible.

 

Most Labour supporters all have the latest iPhones, iPads, biggest TV's and no pension or savings ....... have you noticed?

 

Ho ho ho .......

[Anna B]

Just pleased we have a forward thinking progressive government capable and strong enough to make tough decisions for future generations. The alternative was Ed and his merry band of 'live for now' crowd pleasers. The Tories aren't perfect, but compared to Labour they are at least credible.

 

Most Labour supporters all have the latest iPhones, iPads, biggest TV's and no pension or savings ....... have you noticed?

Ho ho ho .......

 

... and you know this how?

[Mindbending]

Survey of all labour supporters carried out between Sept '14 and Dec '14, published on the labour exec website and widely available in all good bookshops.

[Alan Ladd]

May I reiterate that I have just returned from Athens. When you watch TV and see the reporters in front of the parliament building I walked through that crowd and into the Hotel Bretagne, from where I watched the demos.

 

That great city is broken, shops stand empty everywhere, nothing is getting repaired cleaned or otherwise fixed.

 

People are living on 40 euros a day. Soon they will actually run out of money, people will starve.

 

This because they have refused to address the problem of government overspending and poor administration of tax collecting.

 

The party is over, the piper has to be paid.

 

People on this forum who rail against Cameron and Osbornes plans are crazy. If you doubt me get on a plane and go and take a look. It is truly chilling.