Deradicalisation

[Tommo68]

Religions were invented by men to control men... it really shouldn't come as a surprise when used as intended.

 

The problem is that the extremists are only finishing off a brainwashing process that begins at birth for most Muslims. Ordinary Muslims install in their young the same core beliefs as those of the extremists so all the extremists have to do is make the case that the god you share wants his will imposed. And given how open to interpretation the Koran is, it is too easy a sell and that is why so many are buying it. Muslims need to moderate or the extremism will never go away.

 

People really should be informeed that the koran (spell it how you like) is not open to interpretation and those attempting to interpret it are in for a bad time. It is written that it is not the place of man to question the words of allah. See what is in the koran and take it literally as it is intended to be taken.

 

That is just fact that will only be disputed by people that are not true muslims.

.

.

[petemcewan]

(the word is martyr) isis could not exist without Islam.

so with your kind of understanding, you are going to say, if you've been confronted with any kind of adversity in your youth … that there is one path, and that is violent jihad. The message you are conveying is that this is just yet another form of therapy. And if you analyse the backgrounds of the individuals who opt to go with jihad … many of them come from wealthy backgrounds, [they're] very educated and live in luxury and yet they choose this narrative. – it's because of the faith, the belief system. If you're brought up to be a Muslim, a good Muslim, this is what it entails and, if you're driven enough and if you're a high-achiever, that is when you want to show that you don't only believe but that you practise what you believe in, so you're driven by conviction, not pathology.

 

 

All Muslims are brought up with the notion that you submit to the fact that Allah is the one and only God and Muhammad is the final messenger. You also submit to the day of judgment or the final day and that this life here on earth is very temporary and real eternal life begins after death.the religion of Islam puts life after death at the centre of everything.

 

"Personal conviction" is to be driven by ones own personal beliefs. The desire

to carry out : brutal ,cruel and sadistic forms of punishments and execution; to derive perverse pleasure from carrying out and watching such things is

"pathological. "

Surely ISIS can be described as a pathological death cult .

[johncocker]

"Personal conviction" is to be driven by ones own personal beliefs. The desire

to carry out : brutal ,cruel and sadistic forms of punishments and execution; to derive perverse pleasure from carrying out and watching such things is

"pathological. "

Surely ISIS can be described as a pathological death cult .

 

 

 

 

what you want to describe as "pathological" is a different thing,with ISIS its a kind of craving a craving for brotherhood and glory that's all about life after death. All Muslims are brought up with the notion that you submit to the fact that Allah is the one and only God and Muhammad is the final messenger. You also submit to the day of judgment or the final day and that this life here on earth is very temporary and real eternal life begins after death. Islam puts life after death at the centre of everything.

the core message hasn't changed ,don't blame the internet or whatever for radicalising individuals its the "content " and I'll say it again they're then driven by conviction

 

 

 

 

I don't know what your concept of a cult is but for me islam unreformed

is a cult. ISIS is a manifestation of Islam unreformed. And therefore it is a cult, at least how we describe a cult – "you're either with us or you're not", the insider, the outsider.

the only hope of change is a reformation of Islam.

if you want to call ISIS a death cult then you might as well call islam a death cult.

Edited July 7, 2015 by johncocker

[buck]

If it is hard to understand how an organization like ISIS can influence young men to commit the things they are doing. Compare it with the ability of a scrawny Austrian corporal in the German army to entice a cultured, educated nation to commit the horrors it did between 1933 and 1945.

[petemcewan]

If it is hard to understand how an organization like ISIS can influence young men to commit the things they are doing. Compare it with the ability of a scrawny Austrian corporal in the German army to entice a cultured, educated nation to commit the horrors it did between 1933 and 1945.

 

You might find the "Mass Psychology of Fascism by Whielm Reich " interesting reading.

 

---------- Post added 10-07-2015 at 10:30 ----------

 

 

 

 

 

what you want to describe as "pathological" is a different thing,with ISIS its a kind of craving a craving for brotherhood and glory that's all about life after death. All Muslims are brought up with the notion that you submit to the fact that Allah is the one and only God and Muhammad is the final messenger. You also submit to the day of judgment or the final day and that this life here on earth is very temporary and real eternal life begins after death. Islam puts life after death at the centre of everything.

the core message hasn't changed ,don't blame the internet or whatever for radicalising individuals its the "content " and I'll say it again they're then driven by conviction

 

 

 

 

I don't know what your concept of a cult is but for me islam unreformed

is a cult. ISIS is a manifestation of Islam unreformed. And therefore it is a cult, at least how we describe a cult – "you're either with us or you're not", the insider, the outsider.

the only hope of change is a reformation of Islam.

if you want to call ISIS a death cult then you might as well call islam a death cult.

 

---------- Post added 10-07-2015 at 11:02 ----------

 

This is definitely the last thing I'm going to write.

 

It's correct to describe a personal conviction in the following way. A person has a unshakeable conviction that the Bible gives instruction on how to live a moral and ethical Christian life . The desire to hack off the head of all those who do not follow such instructions is pathological -any psychiatrist would agree.

 

You commit the "cardinal sin of "argument by extension". I do think that ISIS is a death cult- where membership does not permit any dissent. I do not think that the faith of Islam is a death cult. The vast majority of those who follow Islam ,do not in the least arbour the desire to murder all non-believers .

 

I don't mention the internet as a tool for the radicalising . That must be your own view.

Your descriptions are the standard : cultural,historical,political and ideological conditions that you consider have given rise to ISIS. They give no insight as to the "mind" of would be recruits and members of ISIS.

Edited July 10, 2015 by petemcewan

[johncocker]

You might find the "Mass Psychology of Fascism by Whielm Reich " interesting reading.

 

---------- Post added 10-07-2015 at 10:30 ----------

 

 

---------- Post added 10-07-2015 at 11:02 ----------

 

This is definitely the last thing I'm going to write.

 

It's correct to describe a personal conviction in the following way. A person has a unshakeable conviction that the Bible gives instruction on how to live a moral and ethical Christian life . The desire to hack off the head of all those who do not follow such instructions is pathological -any psychiatrist would agree.

 

You commit the "cardinal sin of "argument by extension". I do think that ISIS is a death cult- where membership does not permit any dissent. I do not think that the faith of Islam is a death cult. The vast majority of those who follow Islam ,do not in the least arbour the desire to murder all non-believers .

 

I don't mention the internet as a tool for the radicalising . That must be your own view.

Your descriptions are the standard : cultural,historical,political and ideological conditions that you consider have given rise to ISIS. They give no insight as to the "mind" of would be recruits and members of ISIS.

 

 

a typical anal retentive undergraduate response plus the only insight you can come up with is that they're pathological

 

You obviously dont realise that alot of these guys (British Pakistanis) will grow up in a household where females are still severely subjugated, so they become conditioned with a sense of their own supreme seriousness and historical importance as males. No matter how stupid in reality, they're always magically and automatically right and correct. This is the first key distortion. A key contributing factor to the fact that it doesn't take much for a lot of S. Asian males to become self-righteous if they are inclined to be... A culture of misogyny and the licence this gives to parade unbalanced masculine behaviours needs to really be given more serious attention by those who attempt to address extremism from within their own communities.

 

Add to this an innate aimless waywardness of the proverbial loser, a propensity for melodrama and self-pity, potential drug use, historical tales of persecution to feed the brain, marginalisation--coupled with the seductive, egotistical pull of taking a central place in history, and the supernatural immunity given to you by being blessed by your God in your chosen special vocation--then you can kind of begin to see why they follow the Jihadi call l. They begin to engineer that belly for horror. These are weak, self-deceiving men. And these kinds of men always have a central role to play in the history of violence.

[petemcewan]

 

 

a typical anal retentive undergraduate response plus the only insight you can come up with is that they're pathological

 

You obviously dont realise that alot of these guys (British Pakistanis) will grow up in a household where females are still severely subjugated, so they become conditioned with a sense of their own supreme seriousness and historical importance as males. No matter how stupid in reality, they're always magically and automatically right and correct. This is the first key distortion. A key contributing factor to the fact that it doesn't take much for a lot of S. Asian males to become self-righteous if they are inclined to be... A culture of misogyny and the licence this gives to parade unbalanced masculine behaviours needs to really be given more serious attention by those who attempt to address extremism from within their own communities.

 

Add to this an innate aimless waywardness of the proverbial loser, a propensity for melodrama and self-pity, potential drug use, historical tales of persecution to feed the brain, marginalisation--coupled with the seductive, egotistical pull of taking a central place in history, and the supernatural immunity given to you by being blessed by your God in your chosen special vocation--then you can kind of begin to see why they follow the Jihadi call l. They begin to engineer that belly for horror. These are weak, self-deceiving men. And these kinds of men always have a central role to play in the history of violence.

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of S.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your sake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:16 ----------

 

 

 

a typical anal retentive undergraduate response plus the only insight you can come up with is that they're pathological

 

You obviously dont realise that alot of these guys (British Pakistanis) will grow up in a household where females are still severely subjugated, so they become conditioned with a sense of their own supreme seriousness and historical importance as males. No matter how stupid in reality, they're always magically and automatically right and correct. This is the first key distortion. A key contributing factor to the fact that it doesn't take much for a lot of S. Asian males to become self-righteous if they are inclined to be... A culture of misogyny and the licence this gives to parade unbalanced masculine behaviours needs to really be given more serious attention by those who attempt to address extremism from within their own communities.

 

Add to this an innate aimless waywardness of the proverbial loser, a propensity for melodrama and self-pity, potential drug use, historical tales of persecution to feed the brain, marginalisation--coupled with the seductive, egotistical pull of taking a central place in history, and the supernatural immunity given to you by being blessed by your God in your chosen special vocation--then you can kind of begin to see why they follow the Jihadi call l. They begin to engineer that belly for horror. These are weak, self-deceiving men. And these kinds of men always have a central role to play in the history of violence.

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of A.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your shake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:22 ----------

 

 

 

a typical anal retentive undergraduate response plus the only insight you can come up with is that they're pathological

 

You obviously dont realise that alot of these guys (British Pakistanis) will grow up in a household where females are still severely subjugated, so they become conditioned with a sense of their own supreme seriousness and historical importance as males. No matter how stupid in reality, they're always magically and automatically right and correct. This is the first key distortion. A key contributing factor to the fact that it doesn't take much for a lot of S. Asian males to become self-righteous if they are inclined to be... A culture of misogyny and the licence this gives to parade unbalanced masculine behaviours needs to really be given more serious attention by those who attempt to address extremism from within their own communities.

 

Add to this an innate aimless waywardness of the proverbial loser, a propensity for melodrama and self-pity, potential drug use, historical tales of persecution to feed the brain, marginalisation--coupled with the seductive, egotistical pull of taking a central place in history, and the supernatural immunity given to you by being blessed by your God in your chosen special vocation--then you can kind of begin to see why they follow the Jihadi call l. They begin to engineer that belly for horror. These are weak, self-deceiving men. And these kinds of men always have a central role to play in the history of violence.

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of A.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your shake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:27 ----------

 

Managed to post it 3 times ! I apologise . Didn't mean to . My anally retentive hand had a mind of its own !!

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:28 ----------

 

 

 

a typical anal retentive undergraduate response plus the only insight you can come up with is that they're pathological

 

You obviously dont realise that alot of these guys (British Pakistanis) will grow up in a household where females are still severely subjugated, so they become conditioned with a sense of their own supreme seriousness and historical importance as males. No matter how stupid in reality, they're always magically and automatically right and correct. This is the first key distortion. A key contributing factor to the fact that it doesn't take much for a lot of S. Asian males to become self-righteous if they are inclined to be... A culture of misogyny and the licence this gives to parade unbalanced masculine behaviours needs to really be given more serious attention by those who attempt to address extremism from within their own communities.

 

Add to this an innate aimless waywardness of the proverbial loser, a propensity for melodrama and self-pity, potential drug use, historical tales of persecution to feed the brain, marginalisation--coupled with the seductive, egotistical pull of taking a central place in history, and the supernatural immunity given to you by being blessed by your God in your chosen special vocation--then you can kind of begin to see why they follow the Jihadi call l. They begin to engineer that belly for horror. These are weak, self-deceiving men. And these kinds of men always have a central role to play in the history of violence.

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of A.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your shake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

Edited July 17, 2015 by petemcewan

[SevenRivers]

Religion is the problem, so best route to de-radicalising is to remove religion from the equation...encourage them to ditch their medieval faith and join the modern godless secular society.

[johncocker]

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of S.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your sake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:16 ----------

 

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of A.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your shake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:22 ----------

 

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of A.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your shake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:27 ----------

 

Managed to post it 3 times ! I apologise . Didn't mean to . My anally retentive hand had a mind of its own !!

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 14:28 ----------

 

 

I have to go back on my promise. Since you insist on making it personal.

I suggested you confused "conviction" with "pathological"-that's all and you kick off !! (with the above).

You are obviously the kind of person who likes to have the last word (IMO).

And you've done it again-posted a mixture of generalisations,cod sociology and soap boxing. Just stop for a moment and read ,"It doesn't take much for a lot of A.Asian males to become self righteous -if they are inclined to be" and you might get my point.

I'll repeat for your shake. To understand the "mind set" of the individuals who are participants /recruits to ISIS; requires the application of the insightful procedures found in Psychiatry -nothing more and nothing less.

Signing off with a word of advice . Take a chill pill and resist the urge to hector. Ting-a - ling.

 

 

post after post and Apart from saying they're pathological and they need to see a psychiatrist you've offered absolutely nothing into the insight of an isis recruits mindset :suspect:why bother?

sighning off with a word of advice ,go away and stop wasting peoples time and acting like a silly little egocentric school teacher.

and the chill pill ,yours comes with a jar of vasiline:D

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 15:53 ----------

 

Religion is the problem, so best route to de-radicalising is to remove religion from the equation...encourage them to ditch their medieval faith and join the modern godless secular society.

 

the problem is they don't see themselves as British Muslims...But Muslims living in Britain!

these people consider the "Ummah" a priority over their country. This is culturally at odds with British culture. It is not difficult to pursuade them to fight abroad because the brain washing already took place in their pre-school years. Recruiting them is easy, and as their 'communities' are so insular and regressive, there are plenty of them unemployed with nothing better to do.

 

 

For what it's worth I suspect that any immigrant population carries their cultural and religious backgrounds with them into their new country, this is the weight of the culture's collective experience, and has a massive unconscious presence in these kids. The arrogance of people like petemcewan and the left is that they apparently believe western liberal democracy will automatically supplant this belief-set, as though culture is primarily intellectual and a choice, and western values are 'universal'. The result is actually a massive culture clash operating within the individual (especially the youngsters) and radicalisation is one possible way to express this inner conflict. cultural ntegration with a host country takes time, a lot of time, and the high levels of immigration over the past 15 years has also meant immigrant communities remain relatively unintegrated, causing the conflict within young people to be even more powerful.

l

Edited July 17, 2015 by johncocker

[Alan Ladd]

Two people believe in God.

 

Person A believes God is all loving so lives their life in loving way, ignoring all that is violent in the bible or Koran. But they still believe they are following the will of God.

 

Person B believes God is hateful, violent and vengeful, caring and loving, so lives their life in a hateful, violent and vengeful caring and loving way. They believe they are following the will of God.

 

If persons B's belief in God means they have mental health issues then surely persons A's belief in God must mean they also have mental health issues.

 

Any person who believes in god must be of limited mental capacity. There is no evidence whatsoever in the existence of god. Therefore anyone who has "faith" has a mental capacity deficiency.