apelike Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Spot on. Whilst the goal of European Union has been lost sight of, the purpose from the ECSC onwards was integration in order to prevent huge international conflicts. The record so far shows that its been spectacularly successful. Sorry I disagree with that as there is absolutely no proof that peace has been because of the EU. Europe had long periods of peace in the past and also in the 19th century before the two big wars with Germany, and during that time there was no big EU club. If anything, the continuing rise of Nationalism in Europe is related to EU policies. Integration is not working out, free travel of workers is not working out, immigration is not working out and asylum is just a big mess. The only ones benefiting are the big corporations and the banks. People are becoming resentful of others who have had no economic input moving to another country to tap-in on their success and that is bound to cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Europe had long periods of peace in the past and also in the 19th century before the two big wars with Germany, and during that time there was no big EU club. Yeah, as long as you ignore the Napoleonic Wars, 1823 French Invasion of Spain, The Liberal Wars, Ten Days Campaign, First, Second and Third Carlist Wars, Galician Slaughter, Hungarian War of Independence, First and Second Schleswig Wars, Wars of Italian Independence, Austro-Prussian War and Franco-Prussian War, all of which involved either civil wars, or conflicts between states (or their modern successors) who have only had peace with each other since their mutual membership of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah, as long as you ignore the Napoleonic Wars, 1823 French Invasion of Spain, The Liberal Wars, Ten Days Campaign, First, Second and Third Carlist Wars, Galician Slaughter, Hungarian War of Independence, First and Second Schleswig Wars, Wars of Italian Independence, Austro-Prussian War and Franco-Prussian War, all of which involved either civil wars, or conflicts between states (or their modern successors) who have only had peace with each other since their mutual membership of the EU. And you reckon that without the EU we would have been at each other's throats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 And you reckon that without the EU we would have been at each other's throats? yeah, pretty much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoatwobbler Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 And you reckon that without the EU we would have been at each other's throats? At the very least, we would have had many trade wars without the EU. If not more actual stuff like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 It's kind of conspicuous that the Schuman Declaration stated an aim of making war between member states impossible, and that there haven't been wars between member states whilst there have been plenty between and within surrounding nations. I'm actually personally rather sceptical about going as far as to use the word "impossible", but so far it does seem to have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 yeah, pretty much Of course NATO had nothing to do with keeping the peace. Drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Of course NATO had nothing to do with keeping the peace. Drivel. Has anyone suggested that NATO had nothing to do with it? I certainly haven't. But it's definitely good that there have been economic reasons why conflict has been unthinkable rather than having to rely on the threat of NATO intervention in member states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrystottle Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 The problem with the Euro is that countries were allowed to join and stay in while breaking the rules. Yup. Rules were broken allowing Greece and others to join the Euro. And then when it all went t*ts up, rules were broken rescuing them. As Christine Legard, then French Finance Minister and now head of IMF, said in 2010 "We violated all the rules to save the euro". http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/18/us-france-lagarde-idUSTRE6BH0V020101218 So in the EU a rule is a rule until it becomes inconvenient; at which point it stops being a rule. It's sort of hard to buy into an organisation that carries on like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 At the very least, we would have had many trade wars without the EU. If not more actual stuff like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars Given that Iceland isn't in the EU then how come that still isn't happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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