Am I still allowed to question climate change?

[JIbbo]

Ok

 

Here is another graph - USA which doesn't fit the GLOBAL warming theory.

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6aSqRkDo2y4/S1prfm9k14I/AAAAAAAAAD8/Cf0tjMgt8Gw/s1600-h/Eureka+CA+comp.jpg

 

Eureka shows a distinct warming trend from 1910 to 1940 of 0.034 deg C per year (3.4 deg C per century), then a slight cooling from 1940 to 1970 of -0.013 deg C per year (-1.3 deg C per century). But, Eureka then begins an interesting temperature odyssey. The temperatures increase from 1975 until about 1992, then begin a steep decline. The overall trend from 1975 to 2009 is -0.036 deg C per year (-3.6 deg C per century). However, the temperature trend from 1992 to 2010 is —0.156 deg C per year ( a decline of 15.6 deg C per century).

 

The temperature decline from 1975 to 2010 is approximately the same as for San Diego, California, yet the inland city of Fresno, California shows no such decline.

 

Once again, it is clear that whatever causes the earth's climate to warm or cool, that something is not CO2. Physics does not permit arbitrary application of a physical principle such that it works in one location but not in another. Clearly, Eureka is cooling and cooling quite rapidly. Meanwhile, CO2 in the atmosphere continues to climb

[Wildcat]

Jibbo,

 

I take it you still haven't understood what cherrypicking data means?

 

Can you cite me any source of any credibility that thinks it isn't warming?

 

Global warming deniers subsidised by the oil industry like Fred Singer, Willie Soon and Roy Spencer all admit it is warming....

 

So are you are you trying to distinguish yourself as being even more extreme than the nonsense they come out with.

[Wildcat]

how do we know the proxy actually works then when it doesn't match up with known temperature readings ?

 

thus as we have studies recent temperatures, the proxies used to illustrate older temperatures don't correlate.

 

How do we know their accurate in the slightest for older temperatures ?

 

Because it does match with temperature readings prior to the 1960s and it matches with other proxies like ice cores.

 

No matter how much suspicion you put on earlier proxies the fact remains that it is only the greenhouse effect and rising CO2 levels that can explain the rising surface temperatures and cooling troposphere readings we have in the last 30 years. It is climatologists like the Hansen paper I mentioned a few posts ago from 30 years ago that have managed to predict what is happening today because of their incorporation of human factors and rising CO2 levels in to their models, deniers have not been able to present any cogent theory to explain the results and evidence we have today. It is not the sun, it is cooling. It is not volcanos. The only explanation that fits the facts, and it fits the facts very well is rising CO2 levels as a result of humanity and industrialisation.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Wildcat

[JIbbo]

Jibbo,

 

I take it you still haven't understood what cherrypicking data means?

 

Can you cite me any source of any credibility that thinks it isn't warming?

 

Global warming deniers subsidised by the oil industry like Fred Singer, Willie Soon and Roy Spencer all admit it is warming....

 

So are you are you trying to distinguish yourself as being even more extreme than the nonsense they come out with.

 

i'm showing you bloody temperature charts which illustrate its the same temperature now as it was over 200 years ago.

 

These same charts are used to provide the global temperature models.

 

this is actual raw DATA not "sources"

 

look at it with you own eyes.

 

i'm not cherrypicking records.

 

the entire UK average temperature for 250 years is not cherry picking.

 

the entire average temperatures in a town for well over 100 years ins't cherry picking.

Edited August 28, 2010 by JIbbo

[retep]

So what time frame would you like me to use then ?

 

What other data sets would you like me to use ?

 

There arn't any global data sets relating to temperature ANYWHERE for more than 250 years. The UK is about the best one. All the graphs you see are from a cold period 1970's to the present ( cold PDO )

 

The last 20-30 maybe, weather stations get moved all the time.

 

Global warming is just that GLOBAL.

 

If the scientific foundation behind it was correct, temperature trends in the 2010 should be massively higher than they were in the past.

 

CO2 is a global atmopheric gas, if it was linked to temperature, GLOBAL temperatres should be increasing, EVERYWHERE.

 

Thats why is called GLOBAL warming.

 

So the UK's 250 year temperature record for average temperatures should be a tad warmer now than 250 years ago due to CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere being higher now than 250 years ago.

 

But there not.

 

.25 of a degree difference over 250 yers.

 

The entire theory of CO2 based global warming should mean that then entire planet is warming up on average.

 

Its just not unfortunately.

 

Your theory is out. Any temperature record across the globe over the past 250 years should show significant warming to fit in with the global warming climate data model.

 

They don't work.

 

All temperature charts over the past 1000 years are based on proxy re-construction and modelling.

 

For example, the theory being that trees grow more when its warmer, tthe tree rings are larger, which you can then relate back to temperature.

 

but these proxies have numerous problems with them.

 

The UK temperature charts should be starting to indicate warmer now than 200 year ago quite significantly.

 

It just doesn't.

 

There are if you look, back to 1800ish but seem to be ignored.

[Wildcat]

i'm showing you bloody temperature charts which illustrate its the same temperature now as it was over 200 years ago.

 

These same charts are used to provide the global temperature models.

 

this is actual raw DATA not "sources"

 

look at it with you own eyes.

 

i'm not cherrypicking records.

 

the entire UK average temperature for 250 years is not cherry picking.

 

the entire average temperatures in a town for well over 100 years ins't cherry picking.

 

You haven't shown me an entire temperature record. You have just cherry picked a couple of dates with a temperature. The fact we are talking about global warming and not UK warming is a rather obvious flaw in your argument. Another is that if you are referring to this dataset it clearly does show warming.

 

Do they come from this record?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_England_temperature

[convert]

Is anyone taking bets as to how long the railway engineer will cling to his position?

 

An enquiry into the UN's climate panel, the IPCC, has recommended administrative changes, including a full-time chief executive. It found the IPCC had "assigned high confidence to statements for which there is very little evidence", had failed to acknowledge criticism, or follow its own guidelines.

 

The InterAcademy Council, led by Dr Harold Shapiro, an economist at Princeton University, also said the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change had "gone beyond its mandate to be 'policy relevant' not policy prescriptive" - for which it recommended a new "communications policy". The IPCC was also criticised for "confirmation bias" with lead authors placing "too much weight on their own views relative to other views"...

 

...The report is an indirect criticism of the part-time chairman Dr Rajendara Pachauri. The IAC Panel recommends a full-time chairman limited to a shorter term...

 

 

Source http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/31/iap_on_ipcc/

[truman]

Is anyone taking bets as to how long the railway engineer will cling to his position?

 

 

 

Source http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/31/iap_on_ipcc/

 

He could always stick to writing fiction....oh, hold on a bit.....

[truman]

For the record we've just had the coldest August for 17 years..

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/7974506/Coldest-August-for-17-years.html

[convert]

For the record we've just had the coldest August for 17 years..

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/7974506/Coldest-August-for-17-years.html

 

But, but, but..... that's weather, not climate