Am I still allowed to question climate change?

[Wildcat]

Seems to be working for the MMGW mob and the IPCC .

 

 

Well on some of the people...

 

As you well know the IPCC have corrected any mistakes that have been pointed out to them.

 

I dare say there are some man made global warming advocates that are less honest, but I can't actually think of any.

 

The prepondernce of lies and misleading information all come from the deniers because they have no credible arguments to make to defend their greedy consumption.

[convert]

As you well know the IPCC have corrected any mistakes that have been pointed out to them.

Ah, but they had to be pointed out to them, even when they knew that AR4 had them in.

 

I dare say there are some man made global warming advocates that are less honest, but I can't actually think of any.

We could start with Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Fat Albert (Al Gore).

 

The prepondernce of lies and misleading information all come from the deniers because they have no credible arguments to make to defend their greedy consumption.

 

As shown above; you're wrong again.

[Wildcat]

Ah, but they had to be pointed out to them, even when they knew that AR4 had them in.

 

We could start with Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Fat Albert (Al Gore).

 

 

As shown above; you're wrong again.

 

How are you going to substantiate you first claim? Are you psychic? your second claim is simply false. Your final claim requires some argument or evidence.

[convert]

How are you going to substantiate you first claim? Are you psychic? your second claim is simply false. Your final claim requires some argument or evidence.

 

For the first one.;They didn't bring the errors to the attention of the public, the railway engineer even tried to deny them in the first place.

 

The second one; are you saying that an inconvenient truth was actually the truth? Words fail me wiki. If you actually believe that 'carbon trading' Al was telling the truth, then what little credibility you had has vanished.

 

 

The third one; well given your belief in Al Gore I'll let the rest of the readers of this thread decide...

[retep]

Today in Cancun a fly let out a massive fart, teams of scientists, wringing their hands got out their calculators trying to work out how much gas flies put into the atmosphere.

 

The fly with a wry smile blamed MMGW claiming if there hadn't been a conference he wouldn't have had such a large pile of sh-te to land on.

[wednesday1]

Today in Cancun a fly let out a massive fart, teams of scientists, wringing their hands got out their calculators trying to work out how much gas flies put into the atmosphere.

 

The fly with a wry smile blamed MMGW claiming if there hadn't been a conference he wouldn't have had such a large pile of sh-te to land on.

 

 

 

Ever thought about pursuing a career in stand-up ret?:cool

[Wildcat]

For the first one.;They didn't bring the errors to the attention of the public, the railway engineer even tried to deny them in the first place.

 

The second one; are you saying that an inconvenient truth was actually the truth? Words fail me wiki. If you actually believe that 'carbon trading' Al was telling the truth, then what little credibility you had has vanished.

 

 

The third one; well given your belief in Al Gore I'll let the rest of the readers of this thread decide...

 

For the first one they publically made the corrections, hence all the articles about it. Yes, Pachauri originally denied there was a mistake, something understandable in the context of the number of false claims made about it. The fact however remains, when it was highlighted to the IPCC they investigated and made the correction.

 

Inconvenient Truth was in the words of the judge asked to look in to whether it was appropriate to be used in schools "substantially founded upon scientific research and fact". The only mistake of any significance was on the cause of the glacier loss on Killimanjaro, something subsequently discovered to be false because the cause was primarily deforestation. At the time Al Gore made the film his on this claims were not unreasonable. And as Philip Mote put it when he published his research showing deforestation was the cause: "The fact that the loss of ice on Mount Kilimanjaro cannot be used as proof of global warming does not mean that the Earth is not warming. There is ample and conclusive evidence that Earth's average temperature has increased in the past 100 years, and the decline of mid- and high-latitude glaciers is a major piece of evidence." His other error was a misatribution on a graph to Dr Thompson, when it was a combination of data from Mann and CRU. The point he was making was valid.

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/al-gore-inconvenient-truth-errors.htm

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/al-gore-inconvenient-truth-errors-intermediate.htm

 

Your repeated referals to Al Gore as if there is anything significantly wrong with the film, whilst ignoring complaints against Watts, Monckton or Delingpole show the hypocrisy of your arguments.

 

Also I note this on the SkepticalScience pages nicely addresses the reason why you have a fixation with Al Gore:

 

Note: the vilification of Al Gore is best understood in the context of personalisation. When opponents attack something abstract - like science - the public may not associate with the argument. By giving a name and a face and a set of behavioural characteristics - being a rich politician, for example - it is easy to create a fictional enemy through inference and association. Al Gore is a successful politician who presented a film, his training and experience suitable to the task. To invoke Gore is a way to obfuscate about climate science, for which Gore has neither responsibility, claim nor blame.

[convert]

Well let's look at some comments from a report citing over 1000 scientists who doubt global warming is man made...

 

 

“We're not scientifically there yet. Despite what you may have heard in the media, there is nothing like a consensus of scientific opinion that this is a problem. Because there is natural variability in the weather, you cannot statistically know for another 150 years.” -- UN IPCC's Tom Tripp, a member of the UN IPCC since 2004 and listed as one of the lead authors and serves as the Director of Technical Services & Development for U.S. Magnesium.

 

“Any reasonable scientific analysis must conclude the basic theory wrong!!” -- NASA Scientist Dr. Leonard Weinstein who worked 35 years at the NASA Langley Research Center and finished his career there as a Senior Research Scientist. Weinstein is presently a Senior Research Fellow at the National Institute of Aerospace.

 

“Please remain calm: The Earth will heal itself -- Climate is beyond our power to control...Earth doesn't care about governments or their legislation. You can't find much actual global warming in present-day weather observations. Climate change is a matter of geologic time, something that the earth routinely does on its own without asking anyone's permission or explaining itself.” -- Nobel Prize-Winning Stanford University Physicist Dr. Robert B. Laughlin, who won the Nobel Prize for physics in 1998, and was formerly a research scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.

 

“In essence, the jig is up. The whole thing is a fraud. And even the fraudsters that fudged data are admitting to temperature history that they used to say didn't happen...Perhaps what has doomed the Climategate fraudsters the most was their brazenness in fudging the data” -- Dr. Christopher J. Kobus, Associate Professor of Mechanical Engineering at Oakland University, specializes in alternative energy, thermal transport phenomena, two-phase flow and fluid and thermal energy systems.

 

“The energy mankind generates is so small compared to that overall energy budget that it simply cannot affect the climate...The planet's climate is doing its own thing, but we cannot pinpoint significant trends in changes to it because it dates back millions of years while the study of it began only recently. We are children of the Sun; we simply lack data to draw the proper conclusions.” -- Russian Scientist Dr. Anatoly Levitin, the head of geomagnetic variations laboratory at the Institute of Terrestrial Magnetism, Ionosphere and Radiowave Propagation of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

 

“Hundreds of billion dollars have been wasted with the attempt of imposing a Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) theory that is not supported by physical world evidences...AGW has been forcefully imposed by means of a barrage of scare stories and indoctrination that begins in the elementary school textbooks.” -- Brazilian Geologist Geraldo Luís Lino, who authored the 2009 book “The Global Warming Fraud: How a Natural Phenomenon Was Converted into a False World Emergency.”

 

"I am an environmentalist,” but “I must disagree with Mr. Gore” -- Chemistry Professor Dr. Mary Mumper, the chair of the Chemistry Department at Frostburg State University in Maryland, during her presentation titled “Anthropogenic Carbon Dioxide and Global Warming, the Skeptic's View.”

 

“I am ashamed of what climate science has become today.” The science “community is relying on an inadequate model to blame CO2 and innocent citizens for global warming in order to generate funding and to gain attention. If this is what 'science' has become today, I, as a scientist, am ashamed.” -- Research Chemist William C. Gilbert published a study in August 2010 in the journal Energy & Environment titled “The thermodynamic relationship between surface temperature and water vapor concentration in the troposphere” and he published a paper in August 2009 titled “Atmospheric Temperature Distribution in a Gravitational Field.” [update December 9, 2010]

 

“The dysfunctional nature of the climate sciences is nothing short of a scandal. Science is too important for our society to be misused in the way it has been done within the Climate Science Community.” The global warming establishment “has actively suppressed research results presented by researchers that do not comply with the dogma of the IPCC.” -- Swedish Climatologist Dr. Hans Jelbring, of the Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics Unit at Stockholm University. [updated December 9, 2010. Corrects Jelbring's quote.]

 

“Global warming is the central tenet of this new belief system in much the same way that the Resurrection is the central tenet of Christianity. Al Gore has taken a role corresponding to that of St Paul in proselytizing the new faith...My skepticism about AGW arises from the fact that as a physicist who has worked in closely related areas, I know how poor the underlying science is. In effect the scientific method has been abandoned in this field.” -- Atmospheric Physicist Dr. John Reid, who worked with Australia's CSIRO's (Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization) Division of Oceanography and worked in surface gravity waves (ocean waves) research.

 

“We maintain there is no reason whatsoever to worry about man-made climate change, because there is no evidence whatsoever that such a thing is happening.” -- Greek Earth scientists Antonis Christofides and Nikos Mamassis of the National Technical University of Athens' Department of Water Resources and Environmental Engineering.“There are clear cycles during which both temperature and salinity rise and fall. These cycles are related to solar activity...In my opinion and that of our institute, the problems connected to the current stage of warming are being exaggerated. What we are dealing with is not a global warming of the atmosphere or of the oceans.” -- Biologist Pavel Makarevich of the Biological Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

“Because the greenhouse effect is temporary rather than permanent, predictions of significant global warming in the 21st century by IPCC are not supported by the data.” -- Hebrew University Professor Dr. Michael Beenstock an honorary fellow with Institute for Economic Affairs who published a study challenging man-made global warming claims titled “Polynomial Cointegration Tests of the Anthropogenic Theory of Global Warming.”

 

 

“The whole idea of anthropogenic global warming is completely unfounded. There appears to have been money gained by Michael Mann, Al Gore and UN IPCC's Rajendra Pachauri as a consequence of this deception, so it's fraud.” -- South African astrophysicist Hilton Ratcliffe, a member of the Astronomical Society of Southern Africa (ASSA) and the Astronomical Society of the Pacific and a Fellow of the British Institute of Physics.

 

[Wildcat]

Well let's look at some comments from a report citing over 1000 scientists who doubt global warming is man made...

 

This is what the NY Times says about ClimateDepot's list:

 

Chris Allen, for example, the weather director for WBKO-TV in Kentucky, is listed as a meteorologist on the report, even though he has no degree in meteorology. On his Web site, Mr. Allen has written that his major objection to the idea of human-influenced climate change is that “it completely takes God out of the picture.” Mr. Allen did not respond to phone calls.

 

Mr. Grandia also said Mr. Morano’s report misrepresented the work of legitimate scientists. Mr. Grandia pointed to Steve Rayner, a professor at Oxford, who was mentioned for articles criticizing the Kyoto Protocol, the 1997 international treaty on curbing carbon dioxide emissions.

 

Dr. Rayner, however, in no way disputes the existence of global warming or that human activity contributes to it, as the report implies. In e-mail messages, he said that he had asked to be removed from the Morano report and that a staff member in Mr. Inhofe’s office had promised that he would be. He called his inclusion on the list “quite outrageous.”

 

Asked about Dr. Rayner, Mr. Morano was unmoved. He said that he had no record of Dr. Rayner’s asking to be removed from the list and that the doctor must be “not to be remembering this clearly.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/10/us/politics/10morano.html?_r=3&hp

 

So your example shows the techniques of denialism. Lies and misinformation, backed by Right Wing Free Marketeers and the fossil fuel industry.

 

Looking at the first example in the list "UN IPCC's Tom Tripp, a member of the UN IPCC since 2004 and listed as one of the lead authors". Is that True? Well he did contribute to section 4.5 of the report because he works and knows about the Chemistry of Magnesium. That was his sole contribution to the report.

 

Not really. Tom Tripp helped prepare section 4.5 of the Working Group 3 volume of the IPCC report, which is about how to estimate the greenhouse gas emissions from magnesium production operations. Since he is a metallurgist working for a magnesium producer, he is presumably well qualified to write about the chemistry of magnesium production. But how does this make him into an expert on climate? It doesn’t.

 

http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/redefining-the-expert-witness/

 

It only take a moment to check the sources you come up with, so why do you keep repeating propaganda cites with no credibility? You do check things for credibility before citing them don't you? or are you not interested in truth?

Edited December 11, 2010 by Wildcat

[retep]

This is what the NY Times says about ClimateDepot's list:

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/10/us/politics/10morano.html?_r=3&hp

 

So your example shows the techniques of denialism. Lies and misinformation, backed by Right Wing Free Marketeers and the fossil fuel industry.

 

Looking at the first example in the list "UN IPCC's Tom Tripp, a member of the UN IPCC since 2004 and listed as one of the lead authors". Is that True? Well he did contribute to section 4.5 of the report because he works and knows about the Chemistry of Magnesium. That was his sole contribution to the report.

 

 

 

http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/redefining-the-expert-witness/

 

It only take a moment to check the sources you come up with, so why do you keep repeating propaganda cites with no credibility? You do check things for credibility before citing them don't you? or are you not interested in truth?

 

Leslie Kaufman,

In an above-the-fold, front-page story, the Times’ Leslie Kaufman tried to tell a sad tale about global warming-induced sea-level rise wreaking havoc in Norfolk, VA.

http://greenhellblog.com/2010/11/26/nytimes-lets-facts-intrude-on-alarmist-narrative/