nightrider Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Although I concur with the political cynicism and policy dismissiveness in Christopher Booker's piece "Our leaders are in carbon-cloud cuckoo land" of 10th July, I have to demand corrections and apologies from you for publishing his baseless opinions about the science and evidence of Global Warming, which betray a severe lack of knowledge on his part, and poor editorial censure on your part. The science of Global Warming is not "distinctly questionable" as Booker puts it, and there is not a "fundamental flaw" in the theory. Temperatures have been rising, consistently, globally, with trends making themselves very apparent. One only needs to look at the new Blob Chart from NASA to see this :- http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Ts_vs.year+month.lrg.gif that data only goes back to 1925. The whole point of the hockey stick graph is the warming is more than has happened in the last 1000 years. Just saying the world has warmed up since 1925 tells us nothing useful, without comparisons to earlier time periods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Would you get on a plane that had a 1 in ten chance of crashing? It was 1 in 20 a few posts ago...is this the "fudge factor" coming into play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIbbo Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Does anybody deny the ice cap in the Arctic and the glaciers in Europe are melting at a rate that hasn't happened before? Yes. In the historical climate record our current climatic changes are a spec on the geological record, including within the last 1000 years. A few example of previous climate take from the paper referenced earlier 1. About 15,000 yrs ago, a sudden, intense, climatic warming (~12° C; ~21° F) caused dramatic melting of large Ice Age ice sheets that covered Canada and the northern U.S., all of Scandinavia, and much of northern Europe and Russia. Sea level that had been 120 m (~400 ft) lower than present rose quickly and submerged large areas than had been dry land during the Ice Age. 2. A few centuries later, temperatures again plummeted (~11° ; ~20° F) and glaciers advanced. 3. About 14,000 years ago, global temperatures rose rapidly (~4.5°C; ~8° F) once again and glaciers receded. 4. About 13,400 years ago, global temperatures plunged again (~8°C; ~14° F) and glaciers advanced. 5. About 13,200 years ago, global temperatures increased rapidly (~5°C; ~9° F) and glaciers receded. 6. 12,700 yrs ago global temperatures plunged sharply (~8°C; ~14° F) and a 1000 year period of glacial readvance, the Younger Dryas, began. 7. 11,500 yrs ago, global temperatures rose sharply (~12° C; ~21° F), marking the end of the Younger Dryas cold period and the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age. All documented examples of extream climate change without any nasty humans about. a rise of .2 - 1 degree which is what were talking about is meaningless when compared to the historical record. This also excludes know historical warm and cold period such as the well documented 'Medieval Warm Period' when it was so warm crops were being farmed on greenland and wine was being grown forther north in the UK than sheffield....... Also about two hundred years ago it was so COLD that the river thames used to freeze solid during winter and the ice was so thick tha parties were held on it. Well documented. Our current warming is negliable when put into context with historical records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 that data only goes back to 1925. The whole point of the hockey stick graph is the warming is more than has happened in the last 1000 years. Just saying the world has warmed up since 1925 tells us nothing useful, without comparisons to earlier time periods! How was the data colleclted in 1925? How is the data collected now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 How was the data colleclted in 1925? How is the data collected now.... no idea. Whats that got to do with whether they put it into context by comparing to the last 1000 years, as was done with the hockey stick graph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yes. In the historical climate record our current climatic changes are a spec on the geological record, including within the last 1000 years. A few example of previous climate take from the paper referenced earlier 1. About 15,000 yrs ago, a sudden, intense, climatic warming (~12° C; ~21° F) caused dramatic melting of large Ice Age ice sheets that covered Canada and the northern U.S., all of Scandinavia, and much of northern Europe and Russia. Sea level that had been 120 m (~400 ft) lower than present rose quickly and submerged large areas than had been dry land during the Ice Age. 2. A few centuries later, temperatures again plummeted (~11° ; ~20° F) and glaciers advanced. 3. About 14,000 years ago, global temperatures rose rapidly (~4.5°C; ~8° F) once again and glaciers receded. 4. About 13,400 years ago, global temperatures plunged again (~8°C; ~14° F) and glaciers advanced. 5. About 13,200 years ago, global temperatures increased rapidly (~5°C; ~9° F) and glaciers receded. 6. 12,700 yrs ago global temperatures plunged sharply (~8°C; ~14° F) and a 1000 year period of glacial readvance, the Younger Dryas, began. 7. 11,500 yrs ago, global temperatures rose sharply (~12° C; ~21° F), marking the end of the Younger Dryas cold period and the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age. All documented examples of extream climate change without any nasty humans about. a rise of .2 - 1 degree which is what were talking about is meaningless when compared to the historical record. This also excludes know historical warm and cold period such as the well documented 'Medieval Warm Period' when it was so warm crops were being farmed on greenland and wine was being grown forther north in the UK than sheffield....... Also about two hundred years ago it was so COLD that the river thames used to freeze solid during winter and the ice was so thick tha parties were held on it. Well documented. Our current warming is negliable when put into context with historical records. A lot of the "suddens" you are talking about happened over several thousand years - the ice caps melting has happened in less than twenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane39 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 don't feed the troll.......... As I've posted previously the earths climate has changed dramatically without any link to CO2 and with a far worse variance than we are currently seeing. Thats why although the planet might be warming by .2 of a degree on average, there is no DIRECT CAUSAL evidence to link this to CO2 emilssions currently. You might as well link UK housing prices & the earths temperature as both have climed at the same time. to put this into perspective. Its cold at night, warm in the day. A temperature difference of a few degrees. Does the world end ? Nope. Sorry no link,but i read recently that it aint carbon dioxide that's the problem,but water vapor,(which we have no control over) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) A lot of the "suddens" you are talking about happened over several thousand years - the ice caps melting has happened in less than twenty. You may not have noticed but most of the earth was covered in ice only 14000 years ago,seems a fairly slow melt to me... It isn't melting in antarctica..... "Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m. A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded...." Edited December 6, 2009 by truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 A lot of the "suddens" you are talking about happened over several thousand years - the ice caps melting has happened in less than twenty. also its still unclear whether the medieval warm period was a local (i.e. northern atlantic) or global phenomenon, so the Thames does not tell us much until this is cleared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 no idea. Whats that got to do with whether they put it into context by comparing to the last 1000 years, as was done with the hockey stick graph? Hasn't Mann's hockey stick been disproved? In geoplogical terms I reckon 1000 years isn't enough to get any context.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now