Hunting - the window into Politics

[code word]

No need for it. I would love to see it reversed. Lets have 12 foxes chasing a lonely Fox hunter through the woods. At the same time have horses with planet of the apes type people on horseback blowing a trumpet.

 

---------- Post added 18-07-2015 at 00:08 ----------

 

Listen in all honesty. It is the rich persons equivalent of the 20 handed neds kicking the life out of ONE person. They walk away chest puffed-up high-fiving each other how the 20 of them showed that one person a lesson.

Edited July 17, 2015 by code word

[alchemist]

The what was the "Jemima and the pony club" remark about?

 

What ARE you on about??? Look, if you want to ask stupid questions at least ask the RIGHT person!!!!

 

---------- Post added 18-07-2015 at 07:18 ----------

 

Take another look at the bold parts quoted in post 40.

Then try to tell me again that I'm the one who brought class war into this.

 

Did I say it was a war? NO I mentioned class, yes, because despite Rons cries of lies, it IS primarily a class thing, you don NOT see the working class on the horses in red, they are the rich. It was YOU turned that into a war to try and deflect the issue, and quite frankly you have FAILED!!! So, OK, lets have it your way, lets call it a class war, even though Ron quite rightly says it isnt, what difference does it make? Does it make it less cruel? NO Does comparing it to halal make it less cruel? NO Does stupid comparisons with cats make it less cruel? NO Its a cruel barbaric activity, as simple as that and those who partake in it are equally simple and the word pervert has been used and used correctly

 

---------- Post added 18-07-2015 at 07:33 ----------

 

What? More foxes are killed than songbirds and small rodents by cats? Garbage.

 

Who brought numbers into it? I never said that fox hunters kill more birds than cats!! f course they dont. However do cats kill more foxes than hunters? NO so my point stands that in the issue at hand FOX HUNTING fox hunters are more cruel than anything else in nature. Whilst it IS still buried in the human nature to hunt it is not and has NEVER been in the human nature to get on a horse wearing a red coat to chase a pack of vicious hounds with the sole purpose of ripping something apart that you are not going to eat. That particular perversion was invented by the upper classes and called tradition. I accept before you point out its lies again that now there are some lower classes involved and the serfs in the past were forced to partake as beaters and so unbeliever its your class war again

 

BTW are there any independent statistics around as to how many from each class partake in this perversion to back up your constant accusation of me lying whenever I mention the upper class's pursuit of this "sport"

Edited July 18, 2015 by alchemist

[carl dsaadi]

It is not a matter of being prejudiced against the aristocracy as you seem to be obsessed with. There are, rightly or wrongly, religious reasons for kosher food and at least the way the animals are killed is quick. Are you saying that hunting should be allowed on religious grounds because the hunters want to eat the fox as part of some weird religious rite or requirement and that chasing it all over the countryside at great distress before finally ripping it apart is part of that perversion?

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 22:34 ----------

 

 

Why, because he disagrees with you?

 

I disagree with hunting for sport but I want to make the point that most wild animals will be killed by another animal or suffer the slow death of old age and illness, death by a pack of hounds will be quick.

[alchemist]

Once again you are repeating the lie that it's carried out by just the aristocracy albeit by implication.

It isn't. All walks of life do it (perhaps except perhaps certain underclass and recent immigrants).

 

HMM, you DO of course have the statistics to back up this claim and your constant accusations that I am lying? After all I freely admit that I am not an aristocrat and I dont do it. I do not have have any friends or colleagues in my social group or class that do it yet I do know a couple of members of the aristocracy who DID do it. So lets say that my circle of friends etc is at least 100 and NONE were fox hunters, even my sister in law who is a keen horse rider is not a hunter, yet the only 2 members of the "upper class" i know WERE hunters. So sorry, but MY statistics DO bear out my assertion that its an upper class perversion and it was after all my experiences that I am working on, not yours.

 

BTW, how many hunters do YOU know and what class would you put them in?

 

In fact I will put that question out to all of the group, especially unbeliever, how many people do you know that partake in the perversion of fox hunting, not the paper supporters, the actual partakers and what class are they?

 

---------- Post added 18-07-2015 at 07:45 ----------

 

I disagree with hunting for sport but I want to make the point that most wild animals will be killed by another animal or suffer the slow death of old age and illness, death by a pack of hounds will be quick.

 

This is true, but how many animals in nature are killed just for the sport and not because of food?

[cgksheff]

Would those of you getting het up about upper-classes, fox hunting and perversion be prepared to recognise the different types of fox hunting with hounds?

 

Are you aware of the foot packs in northern England and The Borders?

You would struggle to find any members of the upper-classes amongst them.

[carl dsaadi]

HMM, you DO of course have the statistics to back up this claim and your constant accusations that I am lying? After all I freely admit that I am not an aristocrat and I dont do it. I do not have have any friends or colleagues in my social group or class that do it yet I do know a couple of members of the aristocracy who DID do it. So lets say that my circle of friends etc is at least 100 and NONE were fox hunters, even my sister in law who is a keen horse rider is not a hunter, yet the only 2 members of the "upper class" i know WERE hunters. So sorry, but MY statistics DO bear out my assertion that its an upper class perversion and it was after all my experiences that I am working on, not yours.

 

BTW, how many hunters do YOU know and what class would you put them in?

 

In fact I will put that question out to all of the group, especially unbeliever, how many people do you know that partake in the perversion of fox hunting, not the paper supporters, the actual partakers and what class are they?

 

---------- Post added 18-07-2015 at 07:45 ----------

 

 

This is true, but how many animals in nature are killed just for the sport and not because of food?

 

There are quite a few animals that will kill for reasons other than for food, male lions and dolphins will kill babies in order to breed with their mothers. They will both kill other animals entering their territory, killer whales will play with their food before killing it and eating it. Ants fight wars and enslave other ants, chimpanzees appear to kill just for the fun of it and even the domestic cat will kill for fun. Its a proven fact that humans are not the only species that will kill, torture, enslave and fight amongst themselves or with other animals just for the fun of it.

[unbeliever]

HMM, you DO of course have the statistics to back up this claim and your constant accusations that I am lying? After all I freely admit that I am not an aristocrat and I dont do it. I do not have have any friends or colleagues in my social group or class that do it yet I do know a couple of members of the aristocracy who DID do it. So lets say that my circle of friends etc is at least 100 and NONE were fox hunters, even my sister in law who is a keen horse rider is not a hunter, yet the only 2 members of the "upper class" i know WERE hunters. So sorry, but MY statistics DO bear out my assertion that its an upper class perversion and it was after all my experiences that I am working on, not yours.

 

BTW, how many hunters do YOU know and what class would you put them in?

 

In fact I will put that question out to all of the group, especially unbeliever, how many people do you know that partake in the perversion of fox hunting, not the paper supporters, the actual partakers and what class are they?

 

The only person I know well who has participated in fox hunts was very much working class at the time and was surrounded by other working class people.

 

Still I find it very telling that you ask. You say in one post that this is not about class warfare, but then in another the most important thing to you in this debate is very clearly what class fox hunters are from. You can't have it both ways. is this about class or not?

 

It clearly is about class for you, and you've failed justify why it's okay to target upper class people when it would not be okay to do the same to Jews and Muslims. Or cat lovers even.

[Olive]

Sorry not clear.

Most country people who are a part of the genuine countryside are for hunting. But as you say not all.

In kinda agreeing with you.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2015 at 22:32 ----------

 

 

There is a lot of immigration to the country from the town for many reasons: increased prosperity; white flight; preferring a gentler way of life. These people are counted as country dwellers, but they aren't country folk. This probably skews the stats. I accept it isn't black and white though.

 

Hi Ron, I think there's a lot of truth in what you say about the "escape to the countrysiders". Nothing wrong in that at all.

 

As to your first point, maybe it's different where you live, but I'm a real bumpkin from generations of farmers. No-one I know has ever been into fox hunting, and I know very few people who support it. Maybe it's different in different parts of the country?

[RonJeremy]

Hi Ron, I think there's a lot of truth in what you say about the "escape to the countrysiders". Nothing wrong in that at all.

 

As to your first point, maybe it's different where you live, but I'm a real bumpkin from generations of farmers. No-one I know has ever been into fox hunting, and I know very few people who support it. Maybe it's different in different parts of the country?

 

If you're not in hunting territory then you won't really get it. I'm not a huntsman, but friends of mine do. I'm sorry but I'm completely p#ffed and can't reply coherently right noe.

[taxman]

Would those of you getting het up about upper-classes, fox hunting and perversion be prepared to recognise the different types of fox hunting with hounds?

 

Are you aware of the foot packs in northern England and The Borders?

You would struggle to find any members of the upper-classes amongst them.

 

Still scumbags IMHO. Killing for fun, not for food or conservation.

 

Badger baiters and hare courses, and bear baiters and dog fighters, and **** fighters.

 

People who just want to watch animals being torn to pieces for fun....the same sort of scum who hunt elephants and rhinos.

 

If it really was about pest control then this would happen

 

 

A professional shooter with a nightsight shot all the foxes..I disagree with what they did but it's obvious that the most effective way of killing is by shooting, that's why they do it with badgers.

 

They don't dress up and ride roughshod across the countryside killing any animal that crosses their path.

 

Therefore.....fox hunting is done for fun. Not pest control. They even breed cubs to be hunted.

 

So...the pest control argument..done.

 

Lets go onto the Libertarian argument. The huntsmen aren't infringing on other poeple's lives so they should be allowed to torture wildlife.

 

Not a good argument really...would it be OK if I came into you garden and tortured your cat or dog? Would you be so Laissez Faire Liberal conservative about that?

 

So that argument's done with.

 

Field sports..fine. If you shoot it you eat it. I had a friend who used to go and shoot duck. Not a problem. Never shot anything he didn't eat.

 

Killing things for fun

 

That's you that is