The Disintegration of a Broken Continent

[Ela James]

It used to give me a lot of confusion when I heard that the UK is actually closer to the US than Europe.

Never mind that the British want to be part of Europe when it serves their interest, or outside it for the same reason, but us being selfish and deliberately blind we never seem to like it when the German or the French apply the same rule.

“ We know best, naturally!” …. please!

 

Europe, as I see it, has always been a broken continent. It is …., well, why dig history books when in the last Eurovision song contest Australia, I heard, nearly came first!

 

I have never been so pessimistic about this super intelligent continent as I see myself right now …., I see visible and substantial frictions between ‘sister’ states that is almost turning into an open fight.

By force almost, this continent has nearly become a big Euronation house before the residents discovered how hollow and weak the foundation has been.

A unified and stable continent, by definition, is made up from several independent healthy countries.

But when you have a German bully shouting at a lazy Greek, and watched by an English bystander, I then begin to feel perhaps it is a lot easier building a bridge between London and Toronto.

[Anna B]

I've been watching various programmes about the rise of China. They're economy has taken over the top slot worldwide and they seem to have money to burn. Compare that to the austerity in Britain and places like Greece, and the downfall of Europe starts to look like the fall of the Roman Empire in comparison. Our fall has been so far and fast that heaven knows where we'll be 10 years from now, but you can bet austerity will have become a way of life by then for all but the wealthiest.

 

We are entering a period of serious long term decline, and I fear for the future.

[I1L2T3]

I don't know if this a deliberately provocative headline but haven't the Germans learned from history?

 

'Greek crisis: surrender fiscal sovereignty in return for bailout, Merkel tells Tsipras'

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/12/greek-crisis-surrender-fiscal-sovereignty-in-return-for-bailout-merkel-tells-tsipras

 

I'm very uneasy about this approach, and the language involved.

 

"In what a senior EU official described as an “exercise in extensive mental waterboarding” to secure Greek acquiescence"

 

This is wrong

 

Which country is next in the queue for surrendering to the Germans?

Edited July 12, 2015 by I1L2T3

[Harleyman]

I've been watching various programmes about the rise of China. They're economy has taken over the top slot worldwide and they seem to have money to burn. Compare that to the austerity in Britain and places like Greece, and the downfall of Europe starts to look like the fall of the Roman Empire in comparison. Our fall has been so far and fast that heaven knows where we'll be 10 years from now, but you can bet austerity will have become a way of life by then for all but the wealthiest.

 

We are entering a period of serious long term decline, and I fear for the future.

 

China's prosperity is closely tied to that of Europe and America. A major economic collapse in either or both of the latter and China's economy and prosperity would dissolve like snow in July

 

---------- Post added 12-07-2015 at 22:19 ----------

 

It used to give me a lot of confusion when I heard that the UK is actually closer to the US than Europe.

Never mind that the British want to be part of Europe when it serves their interest, or outside it for the same reason, but us being selfish and deliberately blind we never seem to like it when the German or the French apply the same rule.

“ We know best, naturally!” …. please!

 

Europe, as I see it, has always been a broken continent. It is …., well, why dig history books when in the last Eurovision song contest Australia, I heard, nearly came first!

 

I have never been so pessimistic about this super intelligent continent as I see myself right now …., I see visible and substantial frictions between ‘sister’ states that is almost turning into an open fight.

By force almost, this continent has nearly become a big Euronation house before the residents discovered how hollow and weak the foundation has been.

A unified and stable continent, by definition, is made up from several independent healthy countries.

But when you have a German bully shouting at a lazy Greek, and watched by an English bystander, I then begin to feel perhaps it is a lot easier building a bridge between London and Toronto.

 

Considering hundreds of years of wars and rivalries the situation in Europe has to be much better today

[JFKvsNixon]

I've been watching various programmes about the rise of China. They're economy has taken over the top slot worldwide and they seem to have money to burn. Compare that to the austerity in Britain and places like Greece, and the downfall of Europe starts to look like the fall of the Roman Empire in comparison. Our fall has been so far and fast that heaven knows where we'll be 10 years from now, but you can bet austerity will have become a way of life by then for all but the wealthiest.

 

We are entering a period of serious long term decline, and I fear for the future.

 

China has unbelievable inequality and an unbearable human rights record. I would take our society with it's safety nets over China's every day of the week. You don't know meaning of austerity unless you've lived in China without being part of their middle or upperclass.

[Ela James]

I agree Anna B,

( incidentally, I am a member of another discussion forum .., minutes ago I posted: Don’t know why but I feel there is going to be something somewhere nasty and BIG, pretty soon! )

 

The way I see it, and I could be wrong, the system the western world is using in our daily life is disintegrating … it is defeating its own purpose. … there lifeline is for us to buy from them, or borrow from them to buy from them. … but even that seems somehow to be broken.

When you have 400,000 brand new empty flats in Spain, and you hear families getting evicted from their apartments for not being able to pay their contractual obligations, I then ask who is actually making a profit from this? No one as far as I can see.

The new flats are still empty and will be for the foreseeable future, and the poor family that was evicted is now homeless. I can not find or imagine any profit to anyone from this … except that they, perhaps, are sending a message to the wider community.

But even that message is pointless when you hear the experts saying we are now going through a phase we have never experienced before, not even the recession of 1929.

 

Another thing, different but … that puzzles me still, though

It had never crossed my mind a civilian airliner, with 200 - 300 passengers, flying over Europe gets shot from the sky, hit deliberately in peace time …..

this stuff is actually more like Africa than the glorious Europe we live in, but …. who cares?

Apparently no one!

[Anna B]

China has unbelievable inequality and an unbearable human rights record. I would take our society with it's safety nets over China's every day of the week. You don't know meaning of austerity unless you've lived in China without being part of their middle or upperclass.

 

I know, and I agree.

 

I don't really get China - Communist or Capitalist?

They have some of the richest people on the planet, how did that happen in a Communist country? However I think we have to recognise they are a power to be reckoned with and on the ascendancy, while we are in terminal decline.

 

They might be dependent (to a certain extent,) on Europe and America for trade, but there are plenty of other markets to tap into which are on the up - South America and Africa for a start.

 

And they aren't burdened with unpayable debts.

What do we have to trade now, that can't be got better and cheaper elsewhere? Except, I'm ashamed to say, weapons?

[JFKvsNixon]

I know, and I agree.

 

I don't really get China - Communist or Capitalist?

They have some of the richest people on the planet, how did that happen in a Communist country? However I think we have to recognise they are a power to be reckoned with and on the ascendancy, while we are in terminal decline.

 

They might be dependent (to a certain extent,) on Europe and America for trade, but there are plenty of other markets to tap into which are on the up - South America and Africa for a start.

 

And they aren't burdened with unpayable debts.

What do we have to trade now, that can't be got better and cheaper elsewhere? Except, I'm ashamed to say, weapons?

 

For me, China is the most Capitalist country in the world. Money is everything there now. If you have enough money you can do almost anything.

 

The main reason that they don't have debts is that they just do not care for the individual, an individual is meaningless. No social security, no national health, no universal education, no functioning local government trying to improve the lives of their citizens.

 

The Chinese people I know find our obsession for human and animal rights very quaint and amusing.

 

Lets not forget though, China's middle class is not big enough to support it's economy. Without the West buying the products that it produces China will crash. Will the Chinese people accept living the life of a peasant after tasting a comfortable working class/middle class life? I don't think think so, and this is the ticking time bomb for the Chinese authorities.

Edited July 12, 2015 by JFKvsNixon

[Anna B]

For me, China is the most Capitalist country in the world. Money is everything there now. If you have enough money you can do almost anything.

 

The main reason that they don't have debts is that they just do not care for the individual, an individual is meaningless. No social security, no national health, no universal education, no functioning local government trying to improve the lives of their citizens.

 

The Chinese people I know find our obsession for human and animal rights very quaint and amusing.

 

Lets not forget though, China's middle class is not big enough to support it's economy. Without the West buying the products that it produces China will crash. Will the Chinese people accept living the life of a peasant after tasting a comfortable working class/middle class life? I don't think think so, and this is the ticking time bomb for the Chinese authorities.

 

I believe the peasant class is disappearing fast. Many are being moved off their farmland to make way for shiny new towns and cities with all mod cons, which they then take to like a duck to water.

 

I also think you might be mistaken in believing they have no universal education and social / welfare programs. The infrastructure for these is being rapidly put in place as we speak. It is a Communist mindset after all, although it is a vast country to upgrade. There is a big difference between what's left of country life and life in the big cities.

 

Education however is considered to be of paramount importance. School hours are long, and children undergo extensive after school activities all designed to make them better, more useful citizens. University is free, encouraged and available to all.

 

You are right however in thinking that money is all important. They are almost drunk with the stuff, having not had the chance to buy luxury for so long. And that is causing divisions in society, like we have here.

It's true they have some problems of course, who doesn't? But they seem more than capable of sorting them out. And they still have the necessary grip on the people to make sure they are sorted out quickly and without too much dissent. Something that i singularly lacking over here...

[Ela James]

I know, and I agree.

 

I don't really get China - Communist or Capitalist?

They have some of the richest people on the planet, how did that happen in a Communist country? However I think we have to recognise they are a power to be reckoned with and on the ascendancy, while we are in terminal decline.

 

They might be dependent (to a certain extent,) on Europe and America for trade, but there are plenty of other markets to tap into which are on the up - South America and Africa for a start.

 

And they aren't burdened with unpayable debts.

What do we have to trade now, that can't be got better and cheaper elsewhere? Except, I'm ashamed to say, weapons?

I don't really get China - Communist or Capitalist?

They have some of the richest people on the planet, how did that happen in a Communist country?

 

Communist, Capitalist, socialist, etc…. including humanist, are no more than jackets and coats, their function is to cover the real self that is often torn between good and evil. I don’t buy not even 5% of what the media sells .. but that’s another story.

It is often easier and more realistic to look at various systems, forces and players, I mean capitalist, socialist, etc … as gangs with one ultimate goal: control.

As for China, the BBC says for every billion dollar the US exports to China, it receives 3b worth of goods.

Perhaps watching and understanding what might come next in that country is to see how Alibaba is managing living among the giants such as Ebay, Amazon and the rest ... fascinating and interesting.

 

---------- Post added 13-07-2015 at 08:21 ----------

 

I would like to add the following:

The system we have here right now and I believe we seem to find no alternative to replace it with, to many it is useful and practical and can be seen in this:

A young man, or young lady, in their early 20’s … have just come out from uni .. with a degree in Physics .. or Biology .. plus a debt of around £15K working for one of the big supermarkets filling shelves, working shifts and not a penny being paid to them as it is considered a necessary work experience he or she would need if he or she wants to be employable.

Instead of celebrating the young ones entering the world of work with clever certificates after years and years of sacrifice … by them and their parents .. they start employment with one condition: they would have to work for nothing as if they have just won the lottery.

what is the definition of slavery?

Wake me up if you find any fairness, or justice, humanity, or logic in the above.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Ela James