Should doctors work at the weekend?

[JFKvsNixon]

First of all, this was a doctor covering the ward, His exact words were "there are only 5 doctors on duty". Irrespective of what you think, these are the facts of what was said and it seems others with first hand experience also.

 

I never claimed that the doctor didn't use those exact words, so I don't know what else you want me to say?

 

I dare say he was not considering both A&E or Trauma theatres as these doctors are not there to cover the hospital but rather are there for just one department or are only there due to the nature of the requirements of the hospital at that moment in time.

 

I'm afraid your mistaken, for example the anaesthetist covering the theatres will also cover the hospital for any other needs requiring their input as would the surgeon.

 

It IS. Resource management is obviously not your forte. You don't suddenly need more staff to do the same amount of work spread over a longer period. There will be some cross overs and other times when more is required, but this is minimal. Adding 2 days does not mean you need an additional 20% staff if you are coving the same amount of work. You just need to manage the resources differently.

 

Explain how you'd make it work then. For example, if theatres are already operating under minimum numbers to run an operating list, how would you remove staff from that theatre to work at the weekend?

[Eric Arthur]

Explain how you'd make it work then. For example, if theatres are already operating under minimum numbers to run an operating list, how would you remove staff from that theatre to work at the weekend?

 

Erm, you do fewer operations in the week and more at the weekend.

 

Next

[JFKvsNixon]

Not really, where did you get that idea from?

 

It was an often repeated mantra from my days at university.

 

I believe that I am right so I don't need to back it up or provide an opportunity for you to create a diversionary but irrelevant sub-argument. If you think that I am wrong on the central point you can go ahead and rip me to shreds. It's an open goal if you want it but you'll have to put some effort in.

 

So please go ahead, make it good. I'll reply if necessary.

 

Fair enough, if it is what you believe, then I leave other people to decide whether or not to take your position on faith value alone.

 

Minimum is exactly the right level to be at. The NHS isn't a luxury service. Once the minimum service is being provided it needs to be spread out over 7 days.

 

Minimum levels are fine, until something goes untoward, then you struggle with the day to day service.

 

Ironically this is how private hospitals work, so when something untoward occurs they often transfer the patient to an NHS hospital to deal with the problem. For example few private hospitals will have a decent sized critical care department, because very often their patients won't need it. The problem is, when their patients do need a critical care they'll get transferred to an NHS one.

 

I think that the NHS should have a higher standard of care, than doing the minimum.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2015 at 10:57 ----------

 

Erm, you do fewer operations in the week and more at the weekend.

 

Next

 

There is a minimum level of staff to have in an operating theatre irrespective of how many operations you do! So you'll need the same level of staff to do fewer operations!

Edited September 14, 2015 by JFKvsNixon

[Eric Arthur]

Fair enough, if it is what you believe, then I leave other people to decide whether or not to take your position on faith value alone.

You mean that you don't have a good counter argument.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2015 at 11:01 ----------

 

my days at university.

 

There is a minimum level of staff to have in an operating theatre irrespective of how many operations you do! So you'll need the same level of staff to do fewer operations!

 

From that basic misunderstanding I'd take a stab in the dark and say that you took one of the more esoteric BA's, definitely not a BSc.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Eric Arthur

[JFKvsNixon]

You mean that you don't have a good counter argument.

 

Apart from the fact that many of those 11,000 people were due to the fact the generally only people with serious problems attend hospital at the weekend compared with weekdays?

[Eric Arthur]

Apart from the fact that many of those 11,000 people were due to the fact the generally only people with serious problems attend hospital at the weekend compared with weekdays?

 

And we know that the medical services aren't there when they attend.

 

Next.

[JFKvsNixon]

From that basic misunderstanding I'd take a stab in the dark and say that you took a BA, not a BSc.

 

BSc Honers if you're interested. Basically it comes from the constant drumming into us that an opinion is worthless, unless it is backed up by either research or a published article from an appropriate source.

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2015 at 11:15 ----------

 

And we know that the medical services aren't there when they attend.

 

Next.

 

You do know that the 11,000 thousand quoted figure die within 30 days of admission, not actually just on the weekend of their admission?

Edited September 14, 2015 by JFKvsNixon

[Eric Arthur]

BSc Honers if you're interested. Basically it comes from the constant drumming into us that an opinion is worthless, unless it is backed up by either research or a published article from an appropriate source.

 

You seem to have got yourself confused. I bet that you've forgotten what you're talking about by now? You asked me a question because you seemed to want to make a point. Note, that YOU are the one with the point that you feel needs elaboration, not me.

 

How many of those 11,000 people were due to the fact that generally only people with serious problems attend hospital at the weekend compared with weekdays?

 

It's not my job to run about answering your questions. so off you go. Let's see your working out.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Eric Arthur

[JFKvsNixon]

You seem to have got yourself confused. I bet that you've forgotten what you're talking about by now? You asked me a question because you seemed to want to make a point. Note, that YOU are the one with the point that you feel needs elaboration, not me.

 

It's not my job to run about answering your questions. so off you go. Let's see your working out.

 

I did indeed ask a question to make a point, it was more of a rhetorical question asked to suggest that there many reasons as to why the 11,000 figure exists beyond the supposed refusal of staff to work at weekends.

 

I personally don't think that a 7 day NHS is needed to solve the problems, it could be that well resourced cover at the weekend of all levels of experience and professions may well bring about improvements for less than the cost of running a 7 day week.

[Eric Arthur]

I personally don't think that a 7 day NHS is needed .

 

You personally might not think that it needs to be 7 days a week but the actual NHS does.

 

http://www.england.nhs.uk/ourwork/qual-clin-lead/7-day-week/

 

Do you disagree with the NHS about a 7 day NHS?

 

 

 

 

Debating tip: always try to know the fundamental answer before you get into a debate

Edited September 14, 2015 by Eric Arthur