mattleonard Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'm an atheist but that's not a belief I hold Or (continuing from my previous post), to distract from the fact that to both not be unsure about whether there is a god and to not believe there is a god requires a belief that there isn't a god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Or (continuing from my previous post), to distract from the fact that to both not be unsure about whether there is a god and to not believe there is a god requires a belief that there isn't a god How so? Can you explain how that works? (did you mean to use a double negative there?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 How so? Can you explain how that works? (did you mean to use a double negative there?) Yes I did mean to, because it's very difficult to represent the incoherence of what you're suggesting otherwise. In terms of explaining how it works, I have done - you rejecting or asking me to explain "how it works" requires me to delve into your level of incoherence - my very point is that it doesn't work. It's interesting that Huxley, who you hold up for your definition of atheism coined "agnostic" in rejection of atheism, for the very reason that atheists felt they had 'attained a certain "gnosis"'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) It means you believe there is no God. It doesn't mean you can prove there isn't one. Call it what you like, but if you're using an evidence base, I would suggest you're an agnostic too. Possibly a selective one, if you're ruling them out one at a time! It means I don't have a reason to believe that there are any gods. Edited July 22, 2015 by SnailyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 They don't know enough to know one way or another, and are constantly changing their opinions on the subject, each new discovery leads them to even more questions, to believe they have all the answers is just a little naive of you. At some point the evidence for one thing or another in science becomes so overwhelming that the chance of it being overturned is so minute that it can be safely neglected by any reasonable person. There will indeed be further advances in human understanding of the universe. There have been several major ones in just the last 20 years. Just one example is the fact that we recently discovered that gravity becomes repulsive over extremely large distances. Some assumptions may be overturned, but not this. The idea of a deterministic universe was ruled out decades ago. There's no way to make a deterministic universe fit with experimental results. ---------- Post added 22-07-2015 at 17:23 ---------- Science doesn't run on proof, but on evidence. As science has advanced, God has retreated into a definition which is untestable. Anybody can come up with an untestable hypothesis. I give no more credence to the idea of the Abrahamic god than I do to the flying spaghetti monster. Why believe something which by definition cannot be tested? It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintPlumbing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 At some point the evidence for one thing or another in science becomes so overwhelming that the chance of it being overturned is so minute that it can be safely neglected by any reasonable person. There will indeed be further advances in human understanding of the universe. There have been several major ones in just the last 20 years. Just one example is the fact that we recently discovered that gravity becomes repulsive over extremely large distances. Some assumptions may be overturned, but not this. The idea of a deterministic universe was ruled out decades ago. There's no way to make a deterministic universe fit with experimental results. ---------- Post added 22-07-2015 at 17:23 ---------- Science doesn't run on proof, but on evidence. As science has advanced, God has retreated into a definition which is untestable. Anybody can come up with an untestable hypothesis. I give no more credence to the idea of the Abrahamic god than I do to the flying spaghetti monster. Why believe something which by definition cannot be tested? It makes no sense. A deterministic universe doesn't need a God, and its not possible to determine if the universe would be the same or different if time was rewound, it is possible to find explanations for some things that appear random and I do accept that some apparent random events are for now without explanation, but that doesn't mean they will always be without explanation. There is also no reason to assume that an event that looks random would pan out differently if time was rewound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Why believe something which by definition cannot be tested? Well, I'm pretty sure that boat people from Descartes onwards would say that it certainly makes life easier. EDIT: most people, not boat people Edited July 22, 2015 by mattleonard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintPlumbing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Why believe something which by definition cannot be tested? It makes no sense. It makes just as much sense as believing it to be random, neither position can be tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It makes just as much sense as believing it to be random, neither position can be tested. So are you 50/50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MintPlumbing Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 So are you 50/50? No, mostly because most things once thought to be random can be explained and shown not to be random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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