RootsBooster Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Not a bit of it. You can't experience reality vicariously. Of course you can't, what you can do is experience reality in a way you were conditioned to experience it by a 3rd party. In other words, how you interpret reality can easily be altered by others. ---------- Post added 29-09-2015 at 11:27 ---------- Trying jumping off a tall building and putting that to the test. This is an example of what I'm talking about, some people have been brainwashed in the past to think that in reality they can survive such a fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 'Sctrict' or 'hard' atheism are generic buzzwords that can sometimes lead to confusion in discussion and debate, technically a belief that there are no gods would be anti-theism (the person would also be an atheist). Strictly speaking, a rejection of belief does not mean that you have to hold an opposing belief. Not believing in something is the same as believing that something is not. There is no middle ground, third option, where you don't believe in it, but also don't disbelieve in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Not believing in something is the same as believing that something is not. There is no middle ground, third option, where you don't believe in it, but also don't disbelieve in it. There's some truth in this, but the whole point of suggesting that atheism is a "belief" is to bring it down to the level of 'belief' systems. This debate is getting overly literal and turning into more of a study of nuances in language than a debate on (a)theism. Perhaps I can frame this a little better. Atheism may be a belief, after a fashion, but it is not a faith and as such is quite distinct from when people normally mean when they talk about their beliefs. Atheism has no articles of faith. You're under no obligation or pressure to accept anything which cannot be tested. Atheism is essentially the rejection of the supernatural. The supernatural being a hypothetical extension to the observable and testable nature of the universe, which is usually crafted/phrased in such a way as to ensure it cannot be tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 [ This is an example of what I'm talking about, some people have been brainwashed in the past to think that in reality they can survive such a fall. Which sane people ? If there are any were they on drugs or hypnotised ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Not believing in something is the same as believing that something is not. There is no middle ground, third option, where you don't believe in it, but also don't disbelieve in it. You tried this before but fell foul of your own logic in posts #264/#269 If not having a belief in something is the same as believing that something is not, answer me this... do you believe that my dog is sat next to me right now? ---------- Post added 29-09-2015 at 12:27 ---------- Which sane people ? If there are any were they on drugs or hypnotised ? what are you talking about? ---------- Post added 29-09-2015 at 12:28 ---------- There's some truth in this ...could you expand on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 ...could you expand on this? The rejection of the supernatural is an opinion. It happens to be my opinion. I believe quite emphatically that my opinion is correct. It is not however in any way a faith. It's a matter of what one means by "Believe". It can mean faith, or just opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Jumping off tall buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 The rejection of the supernatural is an opinion. It happens to be my opinion. I believe quite emphatically that my opinion is correct. It is not however in any way a faith. It's a matter of what one means by "Believe". It can mean faith, or just opinion. That's fine enough but it's not what Cyclone is saying, he's saying that if you are without a belief in something you must have an opposing belief. This is not true and is a misrepresentation of the term "binary choice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You tried this before but fell foul of your own logic in posts #264/#269 If not having a belief in something is the same as believing that something is not, answer me this... do you believe that my dog is sat next to me right now? I can believe or not believe your statement. I can't disbelieve your statement without believing that your statement isn't true. If I ignore the statement and consider just the dog. I can believe it's there. I can believe it's not there. If I don't believe it is there, I believe it is not there. I can also not express an opinion due to a lack of evidence either way. I can't however, disbelieve that it's there, without believing that it must be somewhere else, since those are mutually exclusive, binary states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Jumping off tall buildings. I've looked back and I think you may have misread the word "some" as "sane". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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