Is there any point to Labour anymore?

[I1L2T3]

Keep banging your bongos and eventually you'll catch somebody dancing.

 

What is it you don't agree with. Let's face the facts:

1. Increasing numbers of younger people can't buy houses

2. If they can buy then they are faced with massive debt because of high prices

3. Higher education is being opened up further (by the Tories this time) but participation requires increasing amounts of debt.

4. People are being asked to work for longer. For people just starting their working lives the retirement age is already 68, and will most likely continue to be revised upwards

 

Contrast this with pensioners, and with baby boomers, the youngest cohort of which is now around 50:

1. They have amassed property, mostly bought at move favourable prices in more favourable economic times.

2. Many are already mortgage free.

3. They will retire at between 65-67 years. They can plan for a generous state pension and are more likely to have a decent private pension.

4. If they received higher education the chances are they received it for free.

 

We all know that the path to electoral victory means capturing the votes of pensioners and those over 50 and that knowledge is what is really tearing Labour apart. Go for that demographic and you stop being the party of the workers and become a party of the retired, the affluent, the rentier. In pursuit of votes you essentially abandon the people who have to do the work. Of course the Tories have no such problem - they can pander to these groups all day long and be totally comfortable with it. Maybe the problem with the Blair-ites is they are in or moving toward that 50+ age range themselves and enjoy all the advantages of that.

 

If we are saying that the working class no longer exists or that the working population is no longer predominantly blue collar then if Labour, if it wants to be a party of the workers, needs to be brave and recognise that. If wouldn't win any elections for a time but building up credibility with the under 50s and address the new raft of issues that group faces. That doesn't mean moving left but rather facing growing inter-generational problems head-on.

 

My gut feeling is Labour won't do anything other than chase pensioner and boomer votes, and that is why they are truly and utterly lost at the moment.

[JFKvsNixon]

No, that would be the millions of people who pay their membership subs

 

---------- Post added 24-07-2015 at 21:47 ----------

 

 

Is this the Tony Blair who is roundly condemned for taking the UK into an "illegal" war, making millions from speaking tours, being a failed Middle East peace ambassador and advising corrupt regimes on how to avoid questions about torture?

 

It's odd that a man who is universally loathed by both left and right is seen as some sort of panacea, some God to be emulated and looked up to.

 

Who are these Blair fans? And would any party really want to be led by them after the last fiasco?*

 

*(I know winning elections might sound like a success but despite Blair winning three I'd still argue that he went out on a low and any positives he provided during his tenure were outshone by his reckless warmongering)

 

For all his faults and there were many, Blair knew how to win an election and run a popular social democratic government. If Labour wants to erase Blair from their history and refuse to examine the positives from his time in power they are making a serious mistake.

[drummonds]

For all his faults and there were many, Blair knew how to win an election and run a popular social democratic government. If Labour wants to erase Blair from their history and refuse to examine the positives from his time in power they are making a serious mistake.

 

blair had the ability to get non labour supporters to vote labour. in the process he alienated labour voters. sad innit?

 

i note that labour's favourite, corbyn was the subject of an ipsos poll. it seems only 17% of voters think he has what it takes to be a pm. that is somewhat downhill from even miliband.

[Celia Paul]

Aren't you all forgetting something?

In 5 years time when todays mid 20s and 30s get sick of having no choice but to pay a landlord's mortgage, yet not being able to afford their own, the tide will soon turn. Our youngsters are getting a raw deal, what with debts from university fees and extortionate rent and house prices. Where is the future for those who want to start a family? That would be enough to turn anyone into an extreme left winger.

 

It's just been given out that house price rocketing in London is due to overseas criminals using our housing market as a means to of money laundering.

 

---------- Post added 25-07-2015 at 12:18 ----------

 

For all his faults and there were many, Blair knew how to win an election and run a popular social democratic government. If Labour wants to erase Blair from their history and refuse to examine the positives from his time in power they are making a serious mistake.

 

Blair was no more Labour than Maggie Thatcher.

 

---------- Post added 25-07-2015 at 12:20 ----------

 

blair had the ability to get non labour supporters to vote labour..

Well considering he knew nothing of what it was like to be true working class no wonder.

[poppet2]

It's just been given out that house price rocketing in London is due to overseas criminals using our housing market as a means to of money laundering.

 

Which is no consolation to those trying to save for a deposit.

It's just been reported this has distorted the high end of the market.

 

---------- Post added 25-07-2015 at 20:38 ----------

 

For all his faults and there were many, Blair knew how to win an election.

 

After the disgraceful sleaze of the Major Tory government of 1997, a monkey could have won that election. After that the Tories had leader after leader, which showed just how disorganised they were for 13 years.

But hey, look on the bright side, if the Tories can make it back, so can Labour, again.

Edited July 25, 2015 by poppet2

[JFKvsNixon]

After the disgraceful sleaze of the Major Tory government of 1997, a monkey could have won that election. After that the Tories had leader after leader, which showed just how disorganised they were for 13 years.

But hey, look on the bright side, if the Tories can make it back, so can Labour, again.

 

Say what you like about Blair, and lot of it I'd probably agree with but he is the only Labour leader to be re-elected. You say this is due to the disorganised Tories, but I'd suggest that it was Labour's policies that pushed the Tories into the type of territory that led to all the confusion.

[Flanker7]

..............talking of Blair.

[/color]

Well considering he knew nothing of what it was like to be true working class no wonder.

 

Neither did Marx or Engels. Who did live when the term meant something. What does it mean now? The state has reduced 10,000's to be individual claimants and created a benefits class which is another thing completely. People, and their dependents, who work to live are now 80%+ (a guess) of the population.

 

The Labour Party, and its predecessors, have been the standard bearers for Socialist representation in the UK from the beginning. They are in danger of moving too far away from their bedrock, if they do they will be deserted by socialists and be replaced by numerous factions who may take years to unite, if ever.

 

There is still a massive number of people with ideal's, compassion and a commitment to equality. If the The 'Labour' party want to represent them they need to find an addition to their name to associate with where they are going and who they represent.

[Celia Paul]

There is still a massive number of people with ideal's, compassion and a commitment to equality. If the The 'Labour' party want to represent them they need to find an addition to their name to associate with where they are going and who they represent.

As long as it isn't 'New Labour'.

[alchresearch]

blair had the ability to get non labour supporters to vote labour. in the process he alienated labour voters. sad innit?

 

I think the phrase at the time was appealing to "Mondeo Man" wasn't it?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4119695.stm

 

The Tories at the time were mired in sleaze and scandal after scandal, and people were sick of it.