Is evolution enough?

[DrNorm]

Just poked into the latest trending SF atheist thread (183 replies from a standing start just 2 days ago) and I'm bored.

 

I am so atheist and have been since I was 15. I "believe" in evolution. But I'm a bored atheist. I want to believe in something even bigger. And no, I don't mean a bigger fairy story.

 

I joke with my partner. A good ol' Catholic gal. We look at nature and wonder at its beauty and I think about the functional outcome of evolution. It seems to me evolution is only just enough to explain the mechanistic success of a species, but there's more ...

 

Now I know that beauty has a function in evolution. It denotes health and desirability as a mating partner if nothing else. But have you really removed all notions that you have the theory that explains everything? Is there more to explain than a mechanical universe?

 

You see, if evolution was about survival and survival alone then is the exquisiteness and intricacy of our Bengal cat's markings really necessary? A tom cat on heat isn't going to "think" I'll mate with this one, but not that one with the inferior markings. No, the beauty seems to have reached a completely unnecessary level to be explained by evolution alone (survival of the fittest/most adaptive to change/strongest/fastest/resilient to disease etc)

 

And no, I repeat, I'm not looking for a bigger fairy story.

 

It's just that, when you do understand a few mechanics of the world, it still leaves you short of well, what? A belief in something bigger that binds society together. A hope for humanity.

 

You see, it's not a comforting thought to think that we're all so collectively stupid that we're going to wipe ourselves out in a few generations.

 

Who can tell me that won't happen? Where is the belief and hope that we're not at the peak of all that humanity is capable of and it's a downhill run from here on in?

 

I know the above is a little incoherent, but hopefully you get my drift ...

 

And although I'm opening up, I'm also feeling a little prickly. If you might fall into the category of smug atheist, please search for a little humility before ... no, never mind that's a forlorn hope ... let battle commence ... survival of the fittest applies to ideas too eh?

 

Peace, blessings, god be with ye, see thee

 

What's my atheist sign off? I want more I tell you!

[tzijlstra]

You are thus agnostic (searching) rather than atheist (non-believer).

[Anna B]

It's interesting to ponder that we are the only species (that we know of) in the Universe to wonder at its multiple complexities.

 

I wonder what the point of that is?

 

Why are we capable of even thinking about such things? It is not a necessary part of survival of the species, so why has it developed? Are we pre-programmed with a 'God' gene? Why do we feel this unexplained connection to the Universe?

[psynuk]

It's interesting to ponder that we are the only species (that we know of) in the Universe to wonder at its multiple complexities.

 

I wonder what the point of that is?

 

1. Why are we capable of even thinking about such things?
   
2. It is not a necessary part of survival of the species, so why has it developed?
   
3. Are we pre-programmed with a 'God' gene?
   
4. Why do we feel this unexplained connection to the Universe?
   

 

I'm not sure we are the only species to wonder, but inter species communication is a little under developed to know for sure.

 

1. I have a suspicion that our capabilities for thinking about such

un-existential and grand holistic come directly from drug use.

Anyone who has done mushrooms or acid would probably testify to how the feeling of oneness with the universe- it's mostly indescribable but you get the idea- and a connection to a 'higher' plane. That or plain old evolutionary mutations of the brain.

 

2.I'm kinda sure it is a necessary part of survival of the species. Being able to consider ideas or possibilities beyond the 'base instincts' of survival and sex offers you chances to innovate and inwardly evolve. Coming up with a story, a coping strategy to explain the unexplainable allows forward movement. ie not being paralysed by fear helps win the race or at least take the lead for a while.

 

3. No, I don't think we are. As a way to deal with the untouchable mysteries a bit of knowledge brings, god conveniently deals/dealt with a lot of awkward questions. especially 'where did I come from' and 'why is the ground opening up below me?' Science is killing god on many fronts and hopefully prove one day 'gods' do exist, SETI.

 

4. Because we are part of and from the universe also see point 1.

[flamingjimmy]

Of all the things to pick as an example of something difficult for natural selection to explain, the markings of a Bengal cat are not particularly hard in my opinion. It's a camouflage pattern, things like that break up it's shape and enabled it's ancestors to hunt better. We deliberately bred it into domestic cats by breeding them with crazy colored ones to make GM cats, not really 'natural' selection at that point but that's where the pattern came from originally.

 

It's practically the same spots a leopard has, which is how they sneak up on stuff, like this

 

---------- Post added 22-07-2015 at 01:37 ----------

 

You are thus agnostic (searching) rather than atheist (non-believer).

 

I'm a non-believer who's searching for something to believe in.

 

---------- Post added 22-07-2015 at 01:45 ----------

 

It's interesting to ponder that we are the only species (that we know of) in the Universe to wonder at its multiple complexities.

 

I wonder what the point of that is?

 

Why are we capable of even thinking about such things? It is not a necessary part of survival of the species, so why has it developed?

Likely it's a by-product of something that was a necessary part of the survival of the species: our massive brains.

 

Remember, evolution works from random mutations, 'unnecessary' things can and do spring up if they evolve alongside things that are selected for.

 

Are we pre-programmed with a 'God' gene? Why do we feel this unexplained connection to the Universe?

Perhaps some of us do have a greater genetic disposition towards being religious, a single 'god gene' though, I doubt it. Edited July 22, 2015 by flamingjimmy

[cassity]

Of all the things to pick as an example of something difficult for natural selection to explain, the markings of a Bengal cat are not particularly hard in my opinion. It's a camouflage pattern, things like that break up it's shape and enabled it's ancestors to hunt better. We deliberately bred it into domestic cats by breeding them with crazy colored ones to make GM cats, not really 'natural' selection at that point but that's where the pattern came from originally.

 

It's practically the same spots a leopard has, which is how they sneak up on stuff, like this

 

---------- Post added 22-07-2015 at 01:37 ----------

 

 

 

I'm a non-believer who's searching for something to believe in.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the OP being bored of something like evolution..I was thinking you must really have to be bored to get to that state.

[flamingjimmy]

I was thinking more along the lines of the OP being bored of something like evolution..I was thinking you must really have to be bored to get to that state.

 

Yeah bored of evolution c'mon! Someone needs to watch life on earth...

 

Speaking of which as an aside what a wonderful piece of television that would only have been commissioned by the BBC. Don't let the tories destroy it.

[cassity]

J

 

I am so atheist and have been since I was 15. I "believe" in evolution. But I'm a bored atheist. I want to believe in something even bigger. And no, I don't mean a bigger fairy story.

 

You'd be pretty pushed to get a bigger fairy story outside of the one that already exists.

[Cyclone]

It's interesting to ponder that we are the only species (that we know of) in the Universe to wonder at its multiple complexities.

 

I wonder what the point of that is?

 

Why are we capable of even thinking about such things? It is not a necessary part of survival of the species, so why has it developed? Are we pre-programmed with a 'God' gene? Why do we feel this unexplained connection to the Universe?

 

It's developed because social groups require (amongst members) more mental wiring to be able to think about the other members of the group. And at some point that same mental process got applied to ourselves. Hence, self-consciousness. And it turns out that being smart and developing tool use is an evolutionary advantage.

Necessary is the lowest bar in evolution. Better than the things being competed against is the real measure.

[DrNorm]

... Hence, self-consciousness. And it turns out that being smart and developing tool use is an evolutionary advantage.

 

I guess one of the things driving my OP is that an academic explanation of evolution including consciousness, leaves me holding a bunch(!) of theories or facts. Pretty g*damned amazing facts, but after a while facts leave the soul a little cold. Yeah I know I don't have a soul, but it's a good illusion.

 

What are we doing with our evolutionary advantage? Destroying ourselves that's what.

 

Again I know this is a little bit "random", I'm just looking to explore territory beyond the familiar and get away form the "does god exist?" debate.

 

Hi tzijlstra, although I may be looking for something to believe in, that's not a creation story. I know the difference between atheist and agnostic; I'm atheist. You can believe in many things including ideas, purposes, missions, yourself, your mentor etc. This has no bearing on your belief in a god-creator.

 

BTW that old camouflage theory? I have a gut feel we don't have the full explanation there for the wonderful markings of some animals.