Higher taxes or higher tax revenue?

[RonJeremy]

If it works why do the treasury fail to collect enough taxes each year?

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2795899/treasury-sees-25billion-shortfall-income-tax-receipts-amid-low-wage-growth.html

 

And what about money hidden in offshore accounts?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/21/global-elite-tax-offshore-economy

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2015 at 16:42 ----------

 

Jimmy Carr is just a small fish.

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2015 at 16:43 ----------

 

Not to mention the millions self employed it's hard to keep track of,

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2015 at 16:46 ----------

 

Assuming the £13tn mountain of assets earned an average 3% a year for its owners, and governments were able to tax that income at 30%, it would generate a bumper £121bn in revenues – more than rich countries spend on aid to the developing world each year.

 

Your bold - this is what happens. I pay 45% tax on the income from my assets and on the profits from the work I do. It's part of the overall tax take.

[TJC1]

Your bold - this is what happens. I pay 45% tax on the income from my assets and on the profits from the work I do. It's part of the overall tax take.

 

Re:bold

Are you funneling money into offshore accounts though? If not this does not apply to you.

[RonJeremy]

Re:bold

Are you funneling money into offshore accounts though? If not this does not apply to you.

 

I have a French account. Does that count ?

[chem1st]

This is not borne out in reality. It also isn't fair to tax people until the pips squeak. As an entrepreneur, I decide whether to invest in something with my hard earned based on whether it gives me a return AFTER tax. The higher the rate, the lower the likelihood of me starting a new venture, employing people and paying even more tax.

High rates of tax discourage investment and make everyone poorer and destroy the economy and the country as a whole.

The nasty vicious jealous types on here who would tax people who earn more than them are unpleasant people. These haters are always going to hate.

 

The laffer curve has been shown to peak at ~70%. Probably why Universal credit's MDR is set at 70%.

 

In the interest of fairness, the top rate of income tax should be equal to, or exceed the MDR of Universal Credit. Be that by increasing income tax to 65% for the highest earners or reducing the MDR of UC to 42-52%.

[unbeliever]

The laffer curve has been shown to peak at ~70%. Probably why Universal credit's MDR is set at 70%.

 

In the interest of fairness, the top rate of income tax should be equal to, or exceed the MDR of Universal Credit. Be that by increasing income tax to 65% for the highest earners or reducing the MDR of UC to 42-52%.

 

Shown where and by whom?

Why then did income tax revenue fall when the rate went up to 50% and partially recover when it went back down to 45%?

[Cyclone]

If it works why do the treasury fail to collect enough taxes each year?

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2795899/treasury-sees-25billion-shortfall-income-tax-receipts-amid-low-wage-growth.html

It 'failed' to collect what it estimated it would because the economy was weaker and the estimate was too optimistic.

 

And what about money hidden in offshore accounts?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/21/global-elite-tax-offshore-economy

The 'global elite' doesn't apply to 99.9% of the population, hence why I said the system is mostly working as it should.

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2015 at 16:42 ----------

 

Jimmy Carr is just a small fish.

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2015 at 16:43 ----------

 

Not to mention the millions self employed it's hard to keep track of,

Now you're basically talking about tax evasion, since the self employed report their own income.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 07:27 ----------

 

That second link doesn't seem to be related to the UK at all

 

Oil-rich states with an internationally mobile elite have been especially prone to watching their wealth disappear into offshore bank accounts instead of being invested at home, the research suggests. Once the returns on investing the hidden assets is included, almost £500bn has left Russia since the early 1990s when its economy was opened up. Saudi Arabia has seen £197bn flood out since the mid-1970s, and Nigeria £196bn.

 

"The problem here is that the assets of these countries are held by a small number of wealthy individuals while the debts are shouldered by the ordinary people of these countries through their governments," the report says.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 07:29 ----------

 

Going back to the first article, half of the 'tax gap' was attributed to illegal evasion.

And added: ‘£15.4billion is attributed to illegal activity, including criminal attacks and evasion.

‘HMRC should be allocating its resources to ensure that it is targeting taxpayers who are suspected of such activity. That is likely to have a greater impact on the tax gap than relentlessly pursuing those suspected of tax avoidance, which accounted for £3.1 billion.’

 

And a large portion of it was VAT and tobacco duty avoidance. Nothing to do with the income tax system at all.

[L00b]

I have a French account. Does that count ?

Depends how you use it in relation to your gross or net income. Reciprocal double-taxation (-preventing) agreements do the rest.

 

Many countries still prohibit their residing nationals from having foreign bank accounts.

 

Others (like e.g. France) may have (or have since replaced this prohibition with-) a statutory duty to declare any such foreign bank accounts to the tax authorities.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 08:48 ----------

 

And what about money hidden in offshore accounts?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/21/global-elite-tax-offshore-economy

2012 article. Switzerland has effectively ceased to be a 'secretive' banking destination for tax-evading Brits in 2013, Swiss banks shop such Brits and their account details under 2 distinct programs (one about dual taxation, the other about judiciary assistance in criminal investigations) in application of reciprocal agreements. Same in Luxembourg since January 2015. Not many tax havens left in this day and age, and you can thank (mostly-) the Obama administration for that one. Edited July 30, 2015 by L00b

[RonJeremy]

Depends how you use it in relation to your gross or net income. Reciprocal double-taxation (-preventing) agreements do the rest.

 

Many countries still prohibit their residing nationals from having foreign bank accounts.

 

Others (like e.g. France) may have (or have since replaced this prohibition with-) a statutory duty to declare any such foreign bank accounts to the tax authorities.

 

It's an EU country. No one goes to France to evade tax. They have punitive tax rates which is why many people move from France and pay their tax to a different country and support others there.

My euro account is for convenience only and I have relatively little money in it.

[L00b]

It's an EU country.

The obligation to declare which I mentioned arises out of French taxation law. EU membership has nothing to do with taxation law, which still lies well outside the competency of Brussels and Strasbourg. In France or the UK.

 

Just to be clear, before the anti-EU brigade descends on this all foamy-mouthed and uninformed (like in the Chunnel thread) as usual.

No one goes to France to evade tax. They have punitive tax rates which is why many people move from France and pay their tax to a different country and support others there.

My euro account is for convenience only and I have relatively little money in it.

Just to be clear, I wasn't having a dig or go at you, but just being informative

[unbeliever]

The obligation to declare which I mentioned arises out of French taxation law. EU membership has nothing to do with taxation law, which still lies well outside the competency of Brussels and Strasbourg. In France or the UK.

 

Just to be clear, before the anti-EU brigade descends on this all foamy-mouthed and uninformed (like in the Chunnel thread) as usual.Just to be clear, I wasn't having a dig or go at you, but just being informative

 

As a duly designated representative of the "anti-EU brigade", I would draw your attention to the financial transaction tax (although this has yet to reach the UK) and the EU rules on VAT. You'll have to excuse me for a few minutes now as I attempt to wipe the foam from my mouth after which I have plans to work on my ignorance.