El Cid Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The basis of the OP was that electricity was expensive because of privatisation. Electricity is actually expensive because of renewables and other green based decision making. I and others are questioning the premise of the OP, which is perfectly legitimate. Not sure how anyone can complain about a small percentage extra on energy prices to fund renewables, when vehicle fuel is taxed at around 70% I would put VAT on domestic fuel and lower vehicle duty to 60% or so. The government has signed a long-term contract for nuclear power to be supplied at twice the current price of electricity, that will push up all domestic fuel prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Not sure how anyone can complain about a small percentage extra on energy prices to fund renewables, when vehicle fuel is taxed at around 70% I would put VAT on domestic fuel and lower vehicle duty to 60% or so. The government has signed a long-term contract for nuclear power to be supplied at twice the current price of electricity, that will push up all domestic fuel prices. It's not a small percentage. The greens are also responsible for the high price of vehicle fuel. Domestic fuel is already subject to VAT, and if you want to increase it you'll be responsible for a lot of deaths among the elderly in the winter. Nuclear power is suitable for base load and renewables are not. If you want low CO2, you have no choice. Nuclear is still cheaper than renewables, and that's even before you take into account the devastating and completely insoluble intermittency problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source I would also draw your attention to the "peak lithium" problem, which would effectively rule out electric cars and many other electricity storage ideas. Except that after the complete failure of "peak oil", "peak gas" and "peak coal" to appear I can't honestly say I believe it. Edited July 31, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 It's not a small percentage. The Automobile Association (AA) has joined green groups in warning that recent changes in energy policy will harm the climate. That is a surprise, when even the AA are on the side of the environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The Automobile Association (AA) has joined green groups in warning that recent changes in energy policy will harm the climate. That is a surprise, when even the AA are on the side of the environment We're rapidly approaching 20% renewable energy in the UK. Let's keep it simple for now and set aside the intermittency problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...city_by_source Still think it's a small percentage of the total cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I would put VAT on domestic fuel You realise that this would be extremely regressive and have a massive impact on the poor and low paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 You realise that this would be extremely regressive and have a massive impact on the poor and low paid? I would bring in a personal carbon allowance. ---------- Post added 31-07-2015 at 12:00 ---------- The Norwegians are still paying for expensive renewables, but through their taxes rather than their electricity bills. Norway spend £9 billion subsidising wind power, the UK spend more than that on foreign aid, and they spend £4 billion subsidising coal. So in the big scheme of things, we could go on forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) I would bring in a personal carbon allowance. ---------- Post added 31-07-2015 at 12:00 ---------- Norway spend £9 billion subsidising wind power, the UK spend more than that on foreign aid, and they spend £4 billion subsidising coal. So in the big scheme of things, we could go on forever The population of Norway is 5 million. £9 billion is almost £2000 per man, woman and child in the country. That's far more than we spend on electricity and gas combined. The population of the UK is close to 60 million. So £4 billion is less than £70 per person. Still think Norway is getting cheap power? Edited July 31, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Debate all you want, most scientists believe in climate change, most politicians believe in climate change, most people believe in climate change; all the major political parties believe in climate change. The present Government believe in climate change, I think The climate has always been changing...that isn't in dispute.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I would bring in a personal carbon allowance. How would that help the poor and the low paid who's fuel bills for basic heating, lighting and cooking you just put up by 20%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 How would that help the poor and the low paid who's fuel bills for basic heating, lighting and cooking you just put up by 20%? Just like you do not pay tax on your first £11,000 of income, you would not pay tax on a certain amount of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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