Shorter working week

[ECCOnoob]

Although I broadly agree with you, as it seems that thing you are asking is 'is work to life balance out of kilter?'

As mentioned it is entirely context related, thinking lean and mean is fine but only applicable in certain industries.

 

You can't compress time.

I've done much work in the past at a faster rate than anticipated purely to facilitate more time off, but many jobs your paid by the hour - for your time 'wasted'- not for your productivity within those hours.

 

A life guard cannot squeeze 40 hours worth of work into 30 unless you get the swimmers to follow suit. A teacher cant really ensure education is learned faster. likewise for many other jobs.

If your asking 'should we as nation/whatever start to compress our activities into less hours so that jobs can follow suit?'

It leaves the quandary of how do you facilitate that for the likes of doctors, police, fishermen and many others.

 

How do you reconcile these two different modes of work?

 

Just what I was thinking myself.

 

Its all well and good people having these extra days off and changes in hours but what will they expect to happen during their time off.

 

Presumably these people still expect shops, bars, restaurants, banks, public facilities to be open. They will still expect the buses and trains to run, the hospitals and schools to be open...

 

That requires staff. Staff who will have no say in "reducing their hours"

 

I find it interesting that all these comments and posts about flexible hours / work life balance / benefits for the individual have not even thought about the actual needs of the business.

[tinfoilhat]

No it wont. Many hours are wasted. Think lean and mean

 

If someone (and I've worked with a few) will sod around for 10 hours of a 40 hour week you can bet they'll sod around for 10 hours of a 30 hour week, unless the targets are very strict and very enforceable (ie hit them or you're out). Will never happen.

[Cyclone]

 

On same money? With 30 hours as new standard work week. Or even more over 4 days?

 

Or would you prefer an extra day at work?

 

No, of course not on the same money.

 

Why keep pretending that this is somehow possible?

 

I could afford the difference in pay though. But like I keep saying, I'm happy with my current pay and working 5 days a week.

If the world was a magical one and I could keep being paid and work 0 days, I'd do that. But we live in the real world.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2015 at 07:32 ----------

 

No it wont. Many hours are wasted. Think lean and mean

 

There are probably opportunities for me to work harder (even when I'm not on a project that has stalled), but not to the extent where I could get 5 days work done in 4 days.

[WiseOwl182]

I think 37 hours a week is about right for most people.

 

However, there are a lot of firms that encourage a macho long hours culture, where anyone who works their hours and leaves on time is actually "leaving early" and unlikely to get promoted. It's funny when an efficient worker gets through more work in 37 hours than the macho worker does in 50 to 60, but the latter is the one getting rewarded for their time mismanagement (and spending all day boasting about how late they worked).

[Andy1976]

I think 37 hours a week is about right for most people.

 

However, there are a lot of firms that encourage a macho long hours culture, where anyone who works their hours and leaves on time is actually "leaving early" and unlikely to get promoted. It's funny when an efficient worker gets through more work in 37 hours than the macho worker does in 50 to 60, but the latter is the one getting rewarded for their time mismanagement (and spending all day boasting about how late they worked).

 

Missed a few pages, but isn't 35 hours standard? 9am to 5pm with an hour for lunch? That's been standard at every office I've worked in anyway.

[Cyclone]

I've only ever worked in 1 office with a 35 hr week, I think it was HSBC.

SYP was next closest at 36 or 36.5 or something odd like that.

 

Most places have been 37.5, a few have been 40.

[L00b]

If you were forced to find efficiencies and economies by the nature of a 4 day work week could you find them? If you really really wanted to?

Not a chance. We run as lean and mean as our workload and work processes allow. That's services in the private sector for you, the 2008-2011 years were very formative for all (who needed it) in that respect.

I reckon there's a good 10 hours per week or more simply wasted by presenteeism.

Going by my timesheets, I make mine between 1 and 2 per week, average. SF posting included in that.

It's been proven it's impossible to concentrate intensely for more than about 45 mins anyway, the mind simply starts wandering. Certainly long periods of intense concentration over a long time is not healthy.

If you can't concentrate intensely for more than about 45 mins, I don't think we'd ever offer you a job as a fee earner

 

Trainee fee earners can't start in our game without a STEM 1st degree as a minimum, and the norm these days is actually PhD. Gives you an idea about the concentration capacities required in the job, day-in, day-out. One of the professional exams (sittable after a minimum of 3 years on-the-job training) is a 6 hour job, and there isn't a minute of it to spare, let me tell you

Presumably if there was a 30 hour week directive brought in now, the company would adapt?

Of course. We'd hire more bodies, pay everyone 20% or so less, and ultimately the Exchequer would be crying in its empty tax cup.

 

The statutory 35 hour week in France is a failure, long been acknowledged as such and a major contributor to keeping France's economy moribund since 2008.

The concept of a slash in pay on salaried positions is a nonsense. The salary stays the same because the output is either same or improved.

With respect, utter poppycock, TJC1. If I am made to work 20% hours less, 20% less work gets done (see above, non-compressible), therefore I bill out 20% less, and the firm is x % (my 20% less, pro-rata) down on turnover. Edited August 7, 2015 by L00b

[psynuk]

so the average is 37.5 or thereabouts, how did this come about?

I think for many industrial jobs that it's attributable to the 24 hour day being split into three 8 hr shifts (robert Owens 'time and motion' studies?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Lanark

And I would guess that the thirds comes into play with 9-5 working; third for work, third for home, third for sleep. But that kind of working day seems to have been around for a long time now. So maybe there is something more to be done to shorten the working week as well as the working day.

After all weren't we promised robots and jet packs?

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2015 at 09:42 ----------

 

If you can't concentrate intensely for more than about 45 mins, I don't think we'd ever offer you a job as a fee earner

 

The statutory 35 hour week in France is a failure, long been acknowledged as such and a major contributor to keeping France's economy moribund

 

Entirely depends what 'intensely' means

 

Is there actually a need for an ever expanding economy driven by consumerist capitalism, surely the more relaxed parts of the world would be a sorry sight if they all became like downtown Tokyo?

[L00b]

Entirely depends what 'intensely' means

As you quoted me, then in our professional context, dictionary definition. Think 'sitting an exam' -type of concentration. Not a GCSE one, either.

Is there actually a need for an ever expanding economy driven by consumerist capitalism, surely the more relaxed parts of the world would be a sorry sight if they all became like downtown Tokyo?

Philosophically, the advent of knowledge economies has brought about the existential choice of lifestyle businesses, wherein engaging with the proverbial rat race/greasy pole climbing is now very much a personal choice. If you have acquired relevant, transferrable and valuable skills, that is. Edited August 7, 2015 by L00b

[Cyclone]

I think it's well established that most people can't concentrate fully for much longer than 20 minutes.

That doesn't mean you can't do a 6 hour exam, you look up from the questions every so often though and take a breath or a sip of water.

And of course concentrating at exam level for any length of time would leave you a burnt out wreck. I remember having 11 days of exams in 12 days for my finals. I was a mess by the time the last exam was done.

 

All that said, I'm seriously considering having this afternoon off, it's lovely outside and I'm doing nothing (except earning money) sitting in this office. And in this case I feel like an afternoon in the sun is worth the lost income.