*_ash_* Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) The days of being able to live in splendid isolation are long gone in the age of globalisation. I think you are right, but is it not something worth trying to hang onto though? --- A country has to have some kind of balance in terms of work/taxing/housing/schools/hospitals/benefits etc. We haven't got that now, but probably as close as we're ever going to get. It takes years to get any kind of balance and constantly allowing hundreds of thousands in like recent years aint gonna help that. By allowing people to force their way in will just encourage more, I can't see how people can't see this. The people in the films on the news look like young strong men (on the whole). The lefties on here who want people to be allowed to flow in are the usual forum brigade of slow thinkers with no thought for the future, and I think are the same people who constantly post on here about fairness in this and that in this country - especially things like housing and benefits and the other things I mentioned - the very ones who have nothing to lose and are just waiting to blame the Tories for it when it goes tits up, so they can get the Labour brain dead back in. Just look at the Guardian homepage, a nice selection of pictures of women holding babies and crying and wailing... in Hungary! Hardly a dump is it? If it was war torn and worth laying on the train tracks for, why do 2-3 million people go there for a holiday each year? We should take in people directly from the country who are in desperate need, and any number of orphaned children. There are plenty of families in this country who are on the adoption list. Edited September 6, 2015 by *_ash_* split post up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) Egyption billionaire offers to buy an island to help these and other refugees= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11843752/Egyptian-billionaire-offers-to-buy-an-island-off-Italy-or-Greece-to-rehouse-refugees.html Top man! Top man? whats he going to do use it as a transit camp , clean em up,then send them on to the EU What about the Dubai, Qatar and others? These are some of the richest countries in the world, they're nearby and yet between them it seems they've taken fewer refugees than Britain. This despite being countries reliant on migrants as workers. Presumably it's because these are brittle states worried about an influx of people and the shock this could cause to the Emir (aka crony) system but it's curious they'll spend millions and billions on vanity projects buying art and sports clubs not to mention military budgets too but they're not helping their neighbours. I've also been trying to find the numbers that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Oman are taking. The countries with similar cultures to the refugees and where they would fit in culturally and linguistically. I can't find them. Does anybody know? ---------- Post added 06-09-2015 at 13:55 ---------- I think you are right, but is it not something worth trying to hang onto though? A country has to have some kind of balance in terms of work/taxing/housing/schools/hospitals/benefits etc. We haven't got that now, but probably as close as we're ever going to get. It takes years to get any kind of balance and constantly allowing hundreds of thousands in like recent years aint gonna help that. By allowing people to force their way in will just encourage more, I can't see how people can't see this. The people in the films on the news look like young strong men (on the whole). The lefties on here who want people to be allowed to flow in are the usual forum brigade of slow thinkers with no thought for the future, and I think are the same people who constantly post on here about fairness in this and that in this country - especially things like housing and benefits and the other things I mentioned - the very ones who have nothing to lose and are just waiting to blame the Tories for it when it goes tits up, so they can get the Labour brain dead back in. People need to realise that the likes of people like halibut and his cronies on SFwho have been slamming us all as "racist", have careers where their stance on immigration is pivotal in furthering it. Many of the rest of us feel the negative consequences which are not small either for ourselves, our culture and our children. Just look at the Guardian homepage, a nice selection of pictures of women holding babies and crying and wailing... in Hungary! Hardly a dump is it? If it was war torn and worth laying on the train tracks for, why do 2-3 million people go there for a holiday each year? We should take in people directly from the country who are in desperate need, and any number of orphaned children. There are plenty of families in this country who are on the adoption list. I think even the guardian know that if the citizens of Europe are ever given the chance to vote on these proposals the pro-mass immigration lobby will be swept away into oblivion. btw/ where is the UNHCR on this fiasco ?why not say that Middle Eastern and North African states should share the burden of the Syrian refugee crisis, including the Gulf countries, Shia Iran, Morocco and Tunisia? Why doesn't the UNHCR with its very significant budget for refugees do more to provide safe heavens for Syrian refugees in the Middle East? Why doesn't it do more to tackle people smugglers? Why doesn't it organise a world-wide programme of settlement for Arab and African refugees if regional solutions are not possible or not sufficient? Edited September 6, 2015 by johncocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ormester101 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I think you are right, but is it not something worth trying to hang onto though? A country has to have some kind of balance in terms of work/taxing/housing/schools/hospitals/benefits etc. We haven't got that now, but probably as close as we're ever going to get. It takes years to get any kind of balance and constantly allowing hundreds of thousands in like recent years aint gonna help that. By allowing people to force their way in will just encourage more, I can't see how people can't see this. The people in the films on the news look like young strong men (on the whole). The lefties on here who want people to be allowed to flow in are the usual forum brigade of slow thinkers with no thought for the future, and I think are the same people who constantly post on here about fairness in this and that in this country - especially things like housing and benefits and the other things I mentioned - the very ones who have nothing to lose and are just waiting to blame the Tories for it when it goes tits up, so they can get the Labour brain dead back in. Just look at the Guardian homepage, a nice selection of pictures of women holding babies and crying and wailing... in Hungary! Hardly a dump is it? If it was war torn and worth laying on the train tracks for, why do 2-3 million people go there for a holiday each year? We should take in people directly from the country who are in desperate need, and any number of orphaned children. There are plenty of families in this country who are on the adoption list. great post get ready for the lefties to be rubbing there hands in glee when corbyn gets in but they will dismiss corbyns past and what he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) Even if we don't let any refugees into the country, don't you think that sooner or later the crisis will have an effect on your family, friends and the country? The days of being able to live in splendid isolation are long gone in the age of globalisation. China,russia ,japan ,singapore ...spring to mind(Because, like Australia, they're not stupid). they don't accept 'refugees' and its citizens haven't lost out on any aspect of life. /btw actually australia do take refugees just about more then anybody on a per capita basis ,but not illegal immigrants "'boat people ""which they managed to stop. Edited September 6, 2015 by johncocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) btw/ where is the UNHCR on this fiasco ?why not say that Middle Eastern and North African states should share the burden of the Syrian refugee crisis, including the Gulf countries, Shia Iran, Morocco and Tunisia? Why doesn't the UNHCR with its very significant budget for refugees do more to provide safe heavens for Syrian refugees in the Middle East? Why doesn't it do more to tackle people smugglers? Why doesn't it organise a world-wide programme of settlement for Arab and African refugees if regional solutions are not possible or not sufficient? The UNHCR is doing a fair bit, but its humanitarian appeal is only 40% funded/resourced where this crisis is concerned, and does most of its work where 95% of the refugees are based: Turkey (1.9m), Lebanon (1.2m), Jordan (650k), Iraq (250k), Egypt (135k). A question that is currently needling me is why was Merkel telling a young Palestinian girl the following mere weeks ago (July 2015) “You’re a very nice person but you know that there are thousands and thousands of people in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon and if say 'you can all come,' and 'you can all come from Africa,' and 'you can all come,' we just can't manage that."but has suddenly taken the doors off hinges to let migrants in en masses in August? I don't believe in coincidences or change of heart at that level of politics, so what is the political manoeuvre clearly at play here, and what is its end game, that I'm not seeing? Edited September 6, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natjack Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I've also been trying to find the numbers that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Oman are taking. The countries with similar cultures to the refugees and where they would fit in culturally and linguistically. I can't find them. Does anybody know?Apparently it's nil and going on this little gem, which I got off a friend's page on FB this morning, will continue to be nil. https://www.facebook.com/IrqEnglish/videos/1653949404877328/ Although have they had any requests from asylum seekers? In fact, do muslims ever want to emigrate to other muslim countries? I don't think they really like the lifestyle in them very much, which is why these guys were trying to get out of Turkey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo n Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 has Germany got 200000 empty houses just waiting to be filled? cant see it myself.also when we take our quota does that mean local people will be forced down the housing list ? cant see the new arrivals accepting processing camps so local social housing applicants its tough s... .after all comrade dore couldn't possibly favour locals could she! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) The UNHCR is doing a fair bit, but its humanitarian appeal is only 40% funded/resourced where this crisis is concerned, and does most of its work where 95% of the refugees are based: Turkey (1.9m), Lebanon (1.2m), Jordan (650k), Iraq (250k), Egypt (135k). A question that is currently needling me is why was Merkel telling a young Palestinian girl the following mere weeks ago (July 2015)but has suddenly taken the doors off hinges to let migrants in en masses in August? I don't believe in coincidences or change of heart at that level of politics, so what is the political manoeuvre clearly at play here, and what is its end game, that I'm not seeing? Apparently it's nil and going on this little gem, which I got off a friend's page on FB this morning, will continue to be nil. https://www.facebook.com/IrqEnglish/videos/1653949404877328/ Although have they had any requests from asylum seekers? In fact, do muslims ever want to emigrate to other muslim countries? I don't think they really like the lifestyle in them very much, which is why these guys were trying to get out of Turkey? Loob/ at this point in time I don't know what merkel's been smoking but what needles me is the Syrian civil war started almost 4 years ago. Initially, the war refugees were allowed to settle in the neighboring countries; primarily, Turkey, Jordan, and Lebanon. The very high number of refugees created tensions within the host countries, as the refugees started to compete with the locals for jobs and housing. Never-the-less, they were allowed to stay, hoping that they can be recruited for the rebel organizations, created and supported by Turkey and Saudi Arabia. What we are witnessing now is an exodus; large groups of the refugees are moving mostly through Turkey, Greece, and Macedonia, heading for Germany, France, Spain, and UK. This is an exodus of biblical proportion and, as such, it is reasonable to ask: why it is happening now? Why these refugees have suddenly decided to leave where they had already settled? Who is allowing them free movement, as well as offering them basic means to set out on such a long journey? Considering the fact that most refugees are coming through borders of Greece and Macedonia, it reasonable to point the finger at Turkey as the agitator. If Turkey is behind this, it must be seeking only one goal: putting pressure on EU and the US to resolve the Syrian conflict on Turkey's terms. If the rumors are true, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are quite unhappy with the US and its European allies negotiating with Russians and Iranians regarding Syria. Turkey and Saudi Arabia are worried that an agreement resulting from such negotiations could keep M. Assad in power, albeit for a transition period. So, they are looking for a way to express their displeasure and, possibly, take control of the situation. Edited September 6, 2015 by johncocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) It's not in Merkel's interest to do anything that would antagonise Ankara, as that would likely result in stirring tensions with the domestic Turkish migrant population, which is very sizeable and long-established in Germany (by and large, and broad brush alert: where the Brits have Indians and Pakistanis, and the French have north Africans, the Germans have Turks). Short of donning the tinfoil hat and giving free reign to my paranoia, I can't see the German end game in this about-face and their kicking the EU's Dublin Regulations clean out of the stadium. Reneging unilaterally on EU statutes and principles is something the Germans simply don't do. Ever. I just don't buy Merkel opening the door to 900,000 migrants no-questions-asked on the back of the German age pyramid or historically-motivated handwringing. The paranoid me says Germany and France have made their peace about the UK leaving the EU (the German and French common angle, as expressed/implemented under the EU moniker, is already shifting domestic opinion about the EU referendum in the UK), and are intent on fomenting social tensions through mass immigration to justify more leftist-/socialist-like ingerence into daily life through EU statutes stripping elements of civil liberty from the EU populations (basically, what happened under NuLabour in the UK). Far fetched no doubt, but I don't mind admitting I'm in the fog here and so looking at all possible explanations. Edited September 6, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) I think you are right, but is it not something worth trying to hang onto though? A country has to have some kind of balance in terms of work/taxing/housing/schools/hospitals/benefits etc. We haven't got that now, but probably as close as we're ever going to get. It takes years to get any kind of balance and constantly allowing hundreds of thousands in like recent years aint gonna help that. By allowing people to force their way in will just encourage more, I can't see how people can't see this. The people in the films on the news look like young strong men (on the whole). The lefties on here who want people to be allowed to flow in are the usual forum brigade of slow thinkers with no thought for the future, and I think are the same people who constantly post on here about fairness in this and that in this country - especially things like housing and benefits and the other things I mentioned - the very ones who have nothing to lose and are just waiting to blame the Tories for it when it goes tits up, so they can get the Labour brain dead back in. Just look at the Guardian homepage, a nice selection of pictures of women holding babies and crying and wailing... in Hungary! Hardly a dump is it? If it was war torn and worth laying on the train tracks for, why do 2-3 million people go there for a holiday each year? We should take in people directly from the country who are in desperate need, and any number of orphaned children. There are plenty of families in this country who are on the adoption list. Doesn't my post suggest that even if we don't let any refugees into the country, sooner or later the crisis will have an effect on your family, friends and the country? You've completely changed the meaning of my post by editing it, and then you've responded to your edited version of my post. Here's my post: Even if we don't let any refugees into the country, don't you think that sooner or later the crisis will have an effect on your family, friends and the country? The days of being able to live in splendid isolation are long gone in the age of globalisation. ---------- Post added 06-09-2015 at 16:04 ---------- It's not in Merkel's interest to do anything that would antagonise Ankara, as that would likely result in stirring tensions with the domestic Turkish migrant population, which is very sizeable and long-established in Germany (by and large, and broad brush alert: where the Brits have Indians and Pakistanis, and the French have north Africans, the Germans have Turks). Short of donning the tinfoil hat and giving free reign to my paranoia, I can't see the German end game in this about-face and their kicking the EU's Dublin Regulations clean out of the stadium. Reneging unilaterally on EU statutes and principles is something the Germans simply don't do. Ever. I just don't buy Merkel opening the door to 900,000 migrants no-questions-asked on the back of the German age pyramid or historically-motivated handwringing. The paranoid me says Germany and France have made their peace about the UK leaving the EU (the German and French common angle, as expressed/implemented under the EU moniker, is already shifting domestic opinion about the EU referendum in the UK), and are intent on fomenting social tensions through mass immigration to justify more leftist-/socialist-like ingerence into daily life through EU statutes stripping elements of civil liberty from the EU populations (basically, what happened under NuLabour in the UK). Far fetched no doubt, but I don't mind admitting I'm in the fog here and so looking at all possible explanations. For me two basic options stand out because the current state of affairs are becoming unsustainable. We either offer shelter to those affected by the war or we militarily intervene in the problem countries and sort the problem out at the source. Maybe Merkel is steering towards the lesser of two evils? Edited September 6, 2015 by JFKvsNixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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