janie48 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Mr Cameron states that the UK will accept up to 20,000 Syrian refugees living in camps by 2016, with priority given to children and orphans. Further details. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34171148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 If you look into matters independently and with as much due diligence as you claim: you'd soon realise that the problems built into the TTIP extend significantly beyond 'sovereignty and IP'. In pretty much the same way as e.g. ACTA did. TTIP has a strong potential to be enormously harmful to this country's economic infrastructure. It should be resisted with sparing no efforts, and sent back to the drawing board as a blank sheet. And I say all this, notwithstanding a clear vested interested since IP is my game and ACTA/TTIP would do wonders for our balance sheet: intellectual honesty and objectivity is knowing when to turn down a deal that does more harm to the vast majority, than good for just little me. Just to be clear, I'm not out to "pin you down" (we're just debating) and I didn't claim that you have a socio-economic agenda (just a bias, which looks left of centre to me: that's an observation, not an accusation or an insult ) Most people know right from wrong. Some people understand that the world and its problems do not exist within such a simplistic binary context as 'right' and 'wrong'. I like debate, especially from intelligent and reasoned positions....it's a rarity on SF among the plebs and trolls. Very interesting on the TTIP and I'm prepared to listen to all sides...as I understand it Cameron is entering further rounds of talks...I don't wish to dismiss the TTIP until the outcome is known because from a purely pro-Business orientation it's quite exciting...you are correct from a 'leftist' perspective it would be the default position to reject. ....the migrant crisis for me now is a morally right or wrong call.....you can't just leave people in boats to sink without trace...once you know this fact it's hard to come back to 'rational' or 'impassive' or 'logical'. the situation isn't normal.It's exceptional. of course you are right, you can't solve or define ALL the worlds problems with such a black/white attitude. ----- we can look at hard data to make decisions - analysis on data. But I'm still confused.....look, even governments with all their theories, think tanks and advisories can't know....what is 'too much' immigration or what the outcome will be.....we can go on data - but it's a tough call to locate the breaking point. what figure is too many? are we going to see a net contribution or a loss? what other socio-economic factors will contribute or influence the outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I don't claim to speak for the majority of my fellow Britons but I do claim my views are more in line with what the majority of British people think on this issue. The poll on migration: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/06/no-increase-syrian-refugee-numbers/ That is just self selecting poll for people that can be bothered to visit an internet poll website, in the big picture it's meaningless. For example, how does that poll fit in with the opinion polls that say the majority of people want to stay in the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 I don't claim to speak for the majority of my fellow Britons but I do claim my views are more in line with what the majority of British people think on this issue. The poll on migration: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/06/no-increase-syrian-refugee-numbers/ 36% of britains think we should increase.....24% stay the same....only 27% think decrease... more Britains think increase than decrease. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:18 ---------- You don't have a rational argument - you have an emotional one. ....the migrant crisis for me now is a morally right or wrong call.....you can't just leave people in boats to sink without trace...once you know this fact it's hard to come back to 'rational' or 'impassive' or 'logical'. the situation isn't normal. It's exceptional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyM Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 36% of britains think we should increase.....24% stay the same....only 27% think decrease... more Britains think increase than decrease. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:18 ---------- ....the migrant crisis for me now is a morally right or wrong call.....you can't just leave people in boats to sink without trace...once you know this fact it's hard to come back to 'rational' or 'impassive' or 'logical'. the situation isn't normal. It's exceptional. The same as recently means not taking anymore than the 216 that has already been admitted to the UK. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:21 ---------- 36% of britains think we should increase.....24% stay the same....only 27% think decrease... more Britains think increase than decrease. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:18 ---------- ....the migrant crisis for me now is a morally right or wrong call.....you can't just leave people in boats to sink without trace...once you know this fact it's hard to come back to 'rational' or 'impassive' or 'logical'. the situation isn't normal. It's exceptional. Emotional and not practical. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:22 ---------- That is just self selecting poll for people that can be bothered to visit an internet poll website, in the big picture it's meaningless. For example, how does that poll fit in with the opinion polls that say the majority of people want to stay in the EU? No, it's because the findings contrast with your opinion, that's all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 The same as recently means not taking anymore than the 216 that has already been admitted to the UK. it's hardly a clear indication either way....a large percentage were undecided. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:22 ---------- and a large percentage want an increase, and we dont know what that equates to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Those in favour of allow mass migration have yet to offer up a strategy for dealing with the biggest problem... most people don't want the migrants to be allowed in. What are the potential consequences of this? Is it more or less likely that the UK will exit the EU? Will other countries with nationalist and far right parties knocking on the door of power reach the tipping point? If other EU countries vote in nationalist or far right parties then will they also exit the EU? Will the EU survive several countries leaving AND the stress caused by the ongoing Greece saga (their GE this month likely to cause more headaches)? How are the 75% who don't want more mass immigration going to respond to the moral superior 25% yet again imposing their will on them? As 'thousands' of migrants settle and start taking homes, school places and to draw on resources, will resentment levels increase or decrease? What can the government possible do to appease the majority whose wishes have against been ignored? How will the country react in the event of a terrorist attack being committed by someone entering through this new open door? And what of the most extreme in our society - can they be appeased or will this push them towards ever more extreme acts? If 'immigrant communities' find themselves on the receiving end of attacks by extremists within the 'indigenous community' then will they understand or will we see retaliation? It has been estimated that 15,000 people took part in the riots in 2011 - if so few people can stretch emergency services that much then how would they cope if different communities began to fight? Answers and ideas on a postcard to 10 Downing street please... they are going to need all the help they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyM Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 it's hardly a clear indication either way....a large percentage were undecided. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:22 ---------- and a large percentage want an increase, and we dont know what that equates to....[/QUOTE] We do now - Camoran has announced that the UK will admit 20,000 over the duration of this parliament. ---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 16:24 ---------- Those in favour of allow mass migration have yet to offer up a strategy for dealing with the biggest problem... most people don't want the migrants to be allowed in. What are the potential consequences of this? Is it more or less likely that the UK will exit the EU? Will other countries with nationalist and far right parties knocking on the door of power reach the tipping point? If other EU countries vote in nationalist or far right parties then will they also exit the EU? Will the EU survive several countries leaving AND the stress caused by the ongoing Greece saga (their GE this month likely to cause more headaches)? How are the 75% who don't want more mass immigration going to respond to the moral superior 25% yet again imposing their will on them? As 'thousands' of migrants settle and start taking homes, school places and to draw on resources, will resentment levels increase or decrease? What can the government possible do to appease the majority whose wishes have against been ignored? How will the country react in the event of a terrorist attack being committed by someone entering through this new open door? And what of the most extreme in our society - can they be appeased or will this push them towards ever more extreme acts? If 'immigrant communities' find themselves on the receiving end of attacks by extremists within the 'indigenous community' then will they understand or will we see retaliation? It has been estimated that 15,000 people took part in the riots in 2011 - if so few people can stretch emergency services that much then how would they cope if different communities began to fight? Answers and ideas on a postcard to 10 Downing street please... they are going to need all the help they can get. Welcome back, Zamo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 No, it's because the findings contrast with your opinion, that's all! That doesn't even make sense in the context of the question that I asked you! I'll ask the question again. How does the self selecting poll that you used as an example, fit in with other opinion polls that state that majority of people want to stay in the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 That doesn't even make sense in the context of the question that I asked you! I'll ask the question again. How does the self selecting poll that you used as an example, fit in with other opinion polls that state that majority of people want to stay in the EU? Genuine question..in what way are the two polls connected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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