Poor migrants from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan

[L00b]

You can't judge an organisation on its actions 10, 20 or 30+ generations ago.

I judge it how I see it: still disproportionately wealthy and influential, given its theocratic basis.

 

No need to go back 10 generations, just have a Google about priests and paedophilia and the papal cover-up response to it until very recently.

 

Or the criminally negligent ban on the use of condoms in the face of AIDS and other STDs (that are far more problematic and life threatening in 2nd and 3rd world environments than in the 1st world).

 

Etc.

Do you consider Christianity to be tolerant today?

I consider it no differently to any other religion: redundant.

It certainly has been awful over the years, but and it's a BIG BUT, the only followers of a religion that is a threat to us In UK at the moment is Islam

I'm well aware of your physiological preferences in the fairer sex, Mr Jeremy, no need to capitalise

 

[old record] Islam is not the threat. Islamists and other power-seeking agitators are. [/old record]

Edited September 16, 2015 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

Objectively, given its record of tolerance over its 2,000-odd year old history...about as tolerant as Islam, all things considered.

 

We're very lucky to be Europeans and to live in these enlightened times (though you might also want to thank you lucky stars you're not Irish).

 

I'm not sure about enlightened times. Seems to me that the hay-day of being enlightened is past us unfortunately.

[johncocker]

Have you spoken to any Syrian refugees lately? A family friend who works with Medecine Sans Frontieres was in Serbia and Greece for three weeks this summer and reports some of the refugees have firmly turned their back on Islam, it is after all the Islamic State trying to kill them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And they're just going to turn into atheist,lgbt tolerant, liberal, educated, motivated, secular, broad-minded, people overnight:

btw/this friend of yours ,is it the one that told you the saudi's took in over 500,000 refugees?

 

you can put as many cute, emotional, , ad hoc,fake personal stories,on SF as you like but you won't hide the fact that spin means nothing in the long run

the reality is/

Migration is by its nature cumulative. The chain migration that allows half a million mostly young men into EU will over short time allow millions to join them. That's the way it works: siblings, parents, wives, in-laws, cousins....

There is no "shortage of labor" in EU. None. If there was a "shortage", wages would be going up. They are not and 30% of young are unemployed. The migrants will make that dramatically worse.

Saying that "all are welcome" as Merkel and many Germans say, will inevitable motivate millions of others to try.

No matter how much some try to hide it, over 80% of the migrants are young men 18-35 old, and only a minority 20-30% are from Syria. Large numbers have no documents (lost? destroyed?) and refuse to be registered on their journey. That's why the fights and mayhem happen in Hungary.

 

It is a bad idea to join people who don't think through the consequences of their actions. In this case, Germany that are posturing and then they will try to shift the costs on others in the long run

 

 

but for people like you its easier to simply spin fake feel-good human stories.

[paulo n]

stomp your feet if you dont get your way, they have been given their inch, and they are taking there mile! at least hungary have the balls to do something!!

[tzijlstra]

And they're just going to turn into atheist,lgbt tolerant, liberal, educated, motivated, secular, broad-minded,

 

What, like you?

 

And with regards to the Saudi refugee situation, I made my point clear then and I will make it clear again: They did not want to take in 500K refugees under the UN rules, so they issued visas to 500,000 people in total. That still outstrips the UK by a factor of 2500 over the same period.

 

What would you prefer if someone put a gun to your head and made you choose: 500K people under refugee protected status, not being able to contribute to the country because for some reason we don't allow them to work, or 500K people who have been screened and issued work permits for a temporary period with the clear understanding they will return when the war is over?

 

I know which I'd choose.

[L00b]

I'm not sure about enlightened times. Seems to me that the hay-day of being enlightened is past us unfortunately.

Well, we're digressing a little about religion, and to me enlightenment is meant in opposition to obscurantism as self-servingly practiced by religious powers.

 

Now intolerance (which, I surmise, is what you refer to) is an inherent aspect of human nature that can never completely disappear, by the very fact that it is inherently human.

 

E.g. the absence (or demise) of religious grounds of differentiation would do little to mitigate xenophobia based on social and/or cultural grounds of differentiation (-devoid of religious overtones), resulting in just as much intolerance.

[tzijlstra]

but for people like you its easier to simply spin fake feel-good human stories.

 

I think you will find I have repeatedly stated my position AGAINST mass migration into the EU from the Middle East and Africa, I will state it again unequivocally: I think it is a terrible idea and we need to get a move on, clear part of Syria and assure people can go back home. Once that is done we can do the same in other parts of the world.

 

---------- Post added 16-09-2015 at 16:58 ----------

 

Well, we're digressing a little about religion, and to me enlightenment is meant in opposition to obscurantism as self-servingly practiced by religious powers.

 

Now intolerance (which, I surmise, is what you refer to) is an inherent aspect of human nature that can never completely disappear, by the very fact that it is inherently human.

 

E.g. the absence (or demise) of religious grounds of differentiation would do little to mitigate xenophobia based on social and/or cultural grounds of differentiation (-devoid of religious overtones), resulting in just as much intolerance.

 

It all depends on your definition of religion but you are right, it is drifting away from the point.

[ricgem2002]

I think you will find I have repeatedly stated my position AGAINST mass migration into the EU from the Middle East and Africa, I will state it again unequivocally: I think it is a terrible idea and we need to get a move on, clear part of Syria and assure people can go back home. Once that is done we can do the same in other parts of the world./QUOTE]

how do we do that then

[johncocker]

 

What, like you?

 

And with regards to the Saudi refugee situation, I made my point clear then and I will make it clear again: They did not want to take in 500K refugees under the UN rules, so they issued visas to 500,000 people in total. That still outstrips the UK by a factor of 2500 over the same period.

 

What would you prefer if someone put a gun to your head and made you choose: 500K people under refugee protected status, not being able to contribute to the country because for some reason we don't allow them to work, or 500K people who have been screened and issued work permits for a temporary period with the clear understanding they will return when the war is over?

 

I know which I'd choose.

Any non-Sunni ethnic groups in that number? You would expect some Shia considering the population figures.

 

I would doubt any others are there.

 

No Gulf country has signed the UN Convention on Refugees, which sets standards for the treatment and rights of those fleeing to a new country. Gulf states have been among the most ardent opponents of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, providing funds and weapons for rebel groups fighting him

 

 

No "migrants" refugees have made it to the Kingdom, unless they arrived via plane with a visa already. That's since the Saudi's starting arming rebels to overthrow Assad over four years ago. Before IS "emerged".

 

 

Saudi Arabia generously takes in hundreds of thousands of destitute foreigners every year.

 

And generously works them til they drop, generously claws back most of their wages, and then generously kicks them out.

[phantom309]

It seems as though these migrants are just going to start trouble where ever they can as this is reported on the Austrian Italian border and their attitude seems to be if you not let us have what we want we will get it by force and mob rule.

 

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/09/06/raging-horror-confirmed-at-austria-italy-border-mid-east-muslims-refugees-go-on-rampage/