State ownership of companies

[tinfoilhat]

Where do teachers fit in this brave new world? Over half of newly qualified teacher leave the profession in the first 5 years. Comparatively few teachers manage to complete 40 years, many taking early or ill-health retirement because they're worn out.

 

The early retirement has nothing to do with alledged big fat pensions does it?

[Cyclone]

£250K I said, i know from first hand experience some NHS dentists earn a quarter million plus.

gods truth!

 

I thought you said more than 10 times the 40k figure being discussed.

[JFKvsNixon]

As harsh/uncaring/etc. as this may sound, no, they're not. They have a demanding job, but it is a technician's job.

 

The professional buck doesn't stop with them, it stops with the qualified doctor, who knows more than them, supervises them and puts his professional livelihood on the line with potentially every decision he/she makes, and accordingly gets paid more.

 

A technicians job. Run that by me.

[Anna B]

The early retirement has nothing to do with alledged big fat pensions does it?

 

Trust me, it's the most knackering job I've ever done. (and I've done a few, including debt collecting on Wybourn and Park Hill flats.)

[L00b]

I cannot read french, is it like the Daily Mail, or the Huffington Post, or maybe the BBC?

More like a mongrel cross between the FT (Les Echos) and a 'Guardian-lite' (Le Nouvel Obs is more centre left than the Guardian). Both factual, informative and reasonably unbiased. Nothing like the DM.

 

@JFK: you're going to have to give me a bit more context than that, to earn a sensible reply.

[JFKvsNixon]

More like a mongrel cross between the FT (Les Echos) and a 'Guardian-lite' (Le Nouvel Obs is more centre left than the Guardian). Both factual, informative and reasonably unbiased. Nothing like the DM.

 

@JFK: you're going to have to give me a bit more context than that, to earn a sensible reply.

 

TBH I was enquiring as to the context of your post, i.e. nurses are nothing more than technicians.

 

You talk about the doctor putting their career on the line with every decision they make, the same is true with the staff nurse.

 

For example, if the the doctor prescribes a drug at the wrong dose and the nurse administers it, it is the nurse who is accountable for the patient receiving the wrong dose not the doctor. It's the same with drug interactions, the wrong drug prescribed for the situation and so on.

 

Another example, a nurse got a specialist registrar to review a patient over night. So this is a doctor that is basically waiting for a consultants post experience wise, someone who should be relied upon to know what they're doing. The Doctor reviewed the patient and came up with a very non-committal plan for the patient over night.

 

In the morning when the senior staff came on, it was the nurse who was disciplined for not being proactive in the care for the patient. She was told in no certain terms that she should have known that the advice offered by the specialist registrar wasn't appropriate and she should have gone over their head to the consultant, and to be honest the criticism was correct. The staff nurse cannot hide behind the doctors judgement if they know that judgement not to be sound.

 

I'm not trying to provoke a them and us conflict between medical staff and nurses, what I am trying to suggest is that the professional buck stops with the person who is delivering the point of care at that moment. The staff nurse will always be legally and professionally accountable for their actions and inactions.

Edited August 10, 2015 by JFKvsNixon
Spelling as usual.

[TJC1]

A technicians job. Run that by me.

 

I questioned that. Threw dummy out of pram.

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2015 at 22:52 ----------

 

TBH I was enquiring as to the context of your post, i.e. nurses are nothing more than technicians.

 

You talk about the doctor putting their career on the line with every decision they make, the same is true with the staff nurse.

 

For example, if the the doctor prescribes a drug at the wrong dose and the nurse administers it is the nurse who is accountable for the patient receiving the wrong dose not the doctor. It's the same with drug interactions, the wrong drug prescribed for the situation and so on.

 

Another example, a nurse got a specialist registrar to review a patient over night. So this is a doctor that is basically waiting for a consultants post experience wise, someone who should be relied upon to know what their doing. The Doctor reviewed the patient and came up with a very non-committal plan for the patient over night.

 

In the morning when the senior staff came on, it was the nurse who was disciplined for not being proactive in the care for the patient. She was told in no certain terms that she should have known that the advice offered by the specialist registrar wasn't appropriate and she should have gone over their head to the consultant, and to be honest the criticism was correct. The staff nurse cannot hide behind the doctors judgement if they know that judgement not to be sound.

 

I'm not trying to provoke a them and us conflict between medical staff and nurses, what I am trying to suggest is that the professional buck stops with the person who is delivering the point of care at that moment. The staff nurse will always be legally and professionally accountable for their actions and inactions.

 

Wasting your time. The guys totally clueless and actually rather rude if you ask me.

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2015 at 22:53 ----------

 

I thought you said more than 10 times the 40k figure being discussed.

 

Nurses are underpaid. Thats the point.

[*_ash_*]

I'm always suss of people who bring nurses wages into arguments TJC... I'll tell you why/ask you, at the end of the post.

 

thats why nurses are leaving the nhs and moving to places like australia

 

Nurses could choose to work for private companies and earn better money than they do. They don't though, why is that?*

 

 

*rhetorical question/sracasm btw, no need to answer

 

The reason people move to Australia is for a better standard of life and climate, not because they feel underpaid here. Nice try though with the emotion attempt.

 

-

 

it was just an example. the point is if we wish to retain good staff then its worth it.

Nurses are underpaid. Thats the point.

I dont think nurses are paid well at all.

 

The thing with nursing, is that it's very difficult to put a price on it, and an easy tool for people who use emotion to try and win arguments. The same people often use children too to try and sway debates.

 

-

 

all the more evidence the pay scale is out of whack. some dentists nhs, get 250k i believe.

 

Another attempt to sway things. You only need to respond with 'so you think nurses are well paid?', and bring in the fire service now for a full house.

 

So what, in your opinion should a nurse be paid? What do you value at nurse's worth in money?

 

I look forward to the figure

[TJC1]

I'm always suss of people who bring nurses wages into arguments TJC... I'll tell you why/ask you, at the end of the post.

 

 

 

Nurses could choose to work for private companies and earn better money than they do. They don't though, why is that?*

 

 

*rhetorical question/sracasm btw, no need to answer

 

The reason people move to Australia is for a better standard of life and climate, not because they feel underpaid here. Nice try though with the emotion attempt.

 

-

 

 

 

The thing with nursing, is that it's very difficult to put a price on it, and an easy tool for people who use emotion to try and win arguments. The same people often use children too to try and sway debates.

 

-

 

 

 

Another attempt to sway things. You only need to respond with 'so you think nurses are well paid?', and bring in the fire service now for a full house.

 

So what, in your opinion should a nurse be paid? What do you value at nurse's worth in money?

 

I look forward to the figure

 

Its fairly emotive subject personal to me.

Nurses are underpaid. Thats my opinion. Like it or lump it.

[*_ash_*]

Its fairly emotive subject personal to me.

Nurses are underpaid. Thats my opinion. Like it or lump it.

 

I knew it. I knew you couldn't put a figure on it.

 

Job done.