TJC1 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 The proposed link would open up many economic opportunities: Improved productivity through savings to journey time; Improved access to employment; Relocation of business; Opportunities for increased business, tourism and leisure activities; Regeneration and development around new high speed rail stations; The creation of jobs during construction; and More job and business opportunities in the supply chain and support/service sectors to support operation of High Speed Rail services. The wider economic benefits of a UK HSR network to wider West Midlands cities, towns and shire counties is expected to be £5.3 billion over 60 years, while the London to Birmingham route alone is expected to boost Birmingham's economy by £1.23 billion, and towns and cities in surrounding counties by £2.5 billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Travel time of 45 minutes between Birmingham and London, down from the current 83 minutes. Travel time of 38 minutes between Birmingham Interchange Station and London from the current 70 minutes. Travel times of 41 minutes between Birmingham and Manchester (reduced from 90 minutes) and 57 minutes between Birmingham and Leeds (reduced from two hours). Nope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2#Journey_times London-Birmingham goes from 72-84 minutes to 49: 1.46-1.71 times faster. A far lesser speed improvement to Manchester and none at all to Leeds. That's ignoring the fact that you have to get to and from both stations, and wait at the departure station, so the real journey times are much longer. You really want to spend £80 billion to save some people 23-35 minutes. There's your nurses' pay rise right there. ---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:22 ---------- The proposed link would open up many economic opportunities: Improved productivity through savings to journey time; Improved access to employment; Relocation of business; Opportunities for increased business, tourism and leisure activities; Regeneration and development around new high speed rail stations; The creation of jobs during construction; and More job and business opportunities in the supply chain and support/service sectors to support operation of High Speed Rail services. The wider economic benefits of a UK HSR network to wider West Midlands cities, towns and shire counties is expected to be £5.3 billion over 60 years, while the London to Birmingham route alone is expected to boost Birmingham's economy by £1.23 billion, and towns and cities in surrounding counties by £2.5 billion. Hard to see that adding up to the £80 billion cost until long after the thing is obsolete. Edited August 11, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psynuk Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 The proposed link would open up many economic opportunities: Improved productivity through savings to journey time; Improved access to employment; Relocation of business; Opportunities for increased business, tourism and leisure activities; Regeneration and development around new high speed rail stations; The creation of jobs during construction; and More job and business opportunities in the supply chain and support/service sectors to support operation of High Speed Rail services. The wider economic benefits of a UK HSR network to wider West Midlands cities, towns and shire counties is expected to be £5.3 billion over 60 years, while the London to Birmingham route alone is expected to boost Birmingham's economy by £1.23 billion, and towns and cities in surrounding counties by £2.5 billion. I don't buy half of that, not in the manner it's being sold as anyway. I don't doubt that hs2 in some form is needed but the proposed plan seems to be a huuge mis-spend, Also the time savings touted are not exactly legit either Re nurses, I didn't say it was unskilled I said it's not a job that is beyond the scope of most people, and so the wage reflects that, It's like arguing that a plumber is a specialist job, it's not, it's quite graspable by your average person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Nope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2#Journey_times London-Birmingham goes from 72-84 minutes to 49: 1.46-1.71 times faster. A far lesser speed improvement to Manchester and none at all to Leeds. That's ignoring the fact that you have to get to and from both stations, and wait at the departure station, so the real journey times are much longer. You really want to spend £80 billion to save some people 23-35 minutes. There's your nurses' pay rise right there. ---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:22 ---------- Hard to see that adding up to the £80 billion cost until long after the thing is obsolete. with respect you say you work in the public sector so it doesnt surprise me you can't see the benefits. ---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:44 ---------- I don't buy half of that, not in the manner it's being sold as anyway. I don't doubt that hs2 in some form is needed but the proposed plan seems to be a huuge mis-spend, Also the time savings touted are not exactly legit either maybe the project is an overspend, but i can see the benefits in time will far outweigh costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 with respect you say you work in the public sector so it doesnt surprise me you can't see the benefits. I still know how to do arithmetic. In the private sector, does it generally make sense to spend £80 billion in the hope of getting a small fraction of it back over a few decades? They'd have done better to buy 80 billion lottery tickets. At least there the average return is about 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Travel time of 45 minutes between Birmingham and London, down from the current 83 minutes. Travel time of 38 minutes between Birmingham Interchange Station and London from the current 70 minutes. Travel times of 41 minutes between Birmingham and Manchester (reduced from 90 minutes) and 57 minutes between Birmingham and Leeds (reduced from two hours). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 maybe the project is an overspend, but i can see the benefits in time will far outweigh costs. Not according to your own figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 i think sheffield-Leeds is cut to 30mins or less too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Travel time of 45 minutes between Birmingham and London, down from the current 83 minutes. Travel time of 38 minutes between Birmingham Interchange Station and London from the current 70 minutes. Travel times of 41 minutes between Birmingham and Manchester (reduced from 90 minutes) and 57 minutes between Birmingham and Leeds (reduced from two hours). Source please. Mine, which I linked to, says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Not according to your own figures. we don't have the figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now