State ownership of companies

[tinfoilhat]

In England annual water bills had risen from £120 per year in 89, to £204 by 2006. If you take into account inflation, you’ve still got a rise of 39% over and above inflation.

 

The average combined water and sewerage bill in England and Wales has leapt 64% – from £236(2003) to £388(2013), a rise of 64%.

 

The numbers do not tally, how come we dont have these figures? It certainly looks like the water companies of old gave consumers cheaper bills.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/feb/09/rising-water-bills-profits

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/rachel-graham/water-in-uk-public-versus-private

 

Isn't Northern Ireland water still state owned and run? If the press is to be believed, they are suffering because of years of lack of investment. Was British rail much to be proud off before privatisation? I didn't use it much as a youth but I recall the amount of British rail based "jokes".

 

Privatisation has its perks. Rather than the government saying they are going to invest xyz in, say water, they can give the private companies targets to meet and make it someone else's problem. The last government and a half have been skint, how much investment do you think water would have got?

[MintPlumbing]

There are also arguments against renationalisation like financing . I think if the lights start going out due to a lack of electricity and the water supply is contapinated , then that is justification for seizing .

 

The state used to own the utilities and the lights did keep going out and heating did stop working.

[TJC1]

The existence and principle of it is not news to me. At all. The scale of it for NHS employees is news to me.

Really?

 

So, who do you think provides these discounting companies with the lion's share of their profits, then?

 

Who makes up for the 60% loss of revenue from certain (potentially a significant number of, given the sheer scale of the NHS as an employer) customers?

 

Same with leased cars, same with groceries shopping, same with insurances, same with leisure activities, same with restaurant chains, on and on the list goes.

Look it up, Google is your friend. Be warned: it's very hard to keep the green-eyed monster in check as you go down that rabbit hole. Certainly puts a whole new perspective on pay rise demands, when you consider the potential sum total of such discounts on discretionary and non-discretionary expenses.

 

Does it make a difference being public sector? i mean, the private sector give employees bonus and perks in similar ways.

[unbeliever]

Isn't Northern Ireland water still state owned and run? If the press is to be believed, they are suffering because of years of lack of investment. Was British rail much to be proud off before privatisation? I didn't use it much as a youth but I recall the amount of British rail based "jokes".

 

Privatisation has its perks. Rather than the government saying they are going to invest xyz in, say water, they can give the private companies targets to meet and make it someone else's problem. The last government and a half have been skint, how much investment do you think water would have got?

 

This is the case that has been made before as to why water prices went up after privatisation. Leaking water pipes. Lead everywhere. Things getting clogged. All should have been sorted years before except that the state kept putting it back.

[TJC1]

If people were paid on results ,no production no pay ,then it would make no difference if the company was private or public .

All some workers have to do is turn up and they get paid wether they do owt or nowt.

 

maybe a base rate with the rest on production would work better?

[cuttsie]

maybe a base rate with the rest on production would work better?

Yes that would be an incentive .

[unbeliever]

Yes that would be an incentive .

 

Most of the things we're discussing are service sector.

Makes it hard to measure productivity. Especially in an admin or support post.

[TJC1]

Yes that would be an incentive .

 

stop fat cat bosses creaming in money off the backs of workers at least.

[L00b]

Does it make a difference being public sector? i mean, the private sector give employees bonus and perks in similar ways.

Not much in the way of such bonuses and perks in the private sector since 2008, by comparison. Real businesses that have survived, have been reminded (if they needed it) that bonuses and perks have to be earned at the coalface, in the marketplace - which is not tender on overheads.

 

It only matters to me to the extent that many NHS employees claim quite vocally undervalued wages (proven wrong) and insignificant pay rises (proven wrong) when, by the total of such discounts on anything under the sun (achieved though the sheer size of the NHS), net income for net income relative to a private sector counterpart (inasmuch as public/private jobs can ever be said to be directly comparable), their income purchasing power must be significantly above that of the said private sector counterpart.

 

I have now come to the logical conclusion that, as I cannot realistically beat them, I may as well join them

Edited August 10, 2015 by L00b

[TJC1]

Not much of the private sector, by comparison.

 

It only matters to me to the extent that many NHS employees claim quite vocally undervalued wages (proven wrong) and insignificant pay rises (proven wrong) when, by the total of such discounts on anything under the sun (achieved though the sheer size of the NHS), net income for net income relative to a private sector counterpart (inasmuch as public/private jobs can ever be said to be directly comparable), their income purchasing power must be significantly above that of the said private sector counterpart.

 

i agree there are some bloated salaries at the upper end of the scale.

But nurses aren't underpaid??? paramedics?

 

its a bone of contention - how can you even put a value on vital services?