The politicians of today are an insult to you and me

[RonJeremy]

Well UKIP and the greens tried to change things at the last election - not much of a party machine in either of those parties - but the public didn't seem to want that in the constituencies.

[Anna B]

The worst thing the whips can do to an MP is have them de-selected at the next election. They are free to vote as they wish unless they're chicken.

 

It's up to the individual parties to improve the means by which they select candidates. Does Corbyn have anything to say on the matter?

 

You know as well as I do that if the party is in any danger of losing a vote, the whips come out in force. And it's a brave politician who can stand up to that, and still live to tell the tale..

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 16:33 ----------

 

Well UKIP and the greens tried to change things at the last election - not much of a party machine in either of those parties - but the public didn't seem to want that in the constituencies.

 

Really? 4 million votes = 1 Ukip MP, (and you say nothing is wrong with the electoral system?)

[Ela James]

As a complete neutral and an observer:

I personally think the end of the Labour party is near.

( evidence: where is Gordon Brown? Ed? His brother? TB - No one is even bothered to ask … )

 

 

Again, as a complete neutral and an observer, can a political party survive when a fairly different and fresh leadership candidate get slaughtered by …., not the Conservatives … but by those who thought and felt they built a solid self-serving empire but discovered a gentle breeze took it away in less than 3 minutes?

 

To me it is a clear indication that the party has no foundation to stand on

That was my neutral point of view

Edited August 11, 2015 by Ela James

[TJC1]

As a complete neutral and an observer:

I personally think the end of the Labour party is near.

( evidence: where is Gordon Brown? Ed? His brother? TB - No one is even bothered to ask … )

 

 

Again, as a complete neutral and an observer, can a political party survive when a fairly different and fresh leadership candidate get slaughtered by …., not the Conservatives … but by those who thought and felt they built a solid self-serving empire but discovered a gentle breeze took it away in less than 3 minutes?

 

To me it is a clear indication that the party has no foundation to stand on

That was my neutral point of view

 

As a neutral I think labour are going to be worth voting for again. Corbynmania is on the rise, good policies and with cameron stepping down its a good time to get into power.

[MikeFrank]

Politics is destined to lurch further to the right. The Left have become unelectable. We need PR to keep things in the centre. We won't get it though.

[unbeliever]

You know as well as I do that if the party is in any danger of losing a vote, the whips come out in force. And it's a brave politician who can stand up to that, and still live to tell the tale..

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 16:33 ----------

 

 

Really? 4 million votes = 1 Ukip MP, (and you say nothing is wrong with the electoral system?)

 

I voted for AV. We lost. The people have spoken. Vox populi box dei.

 

As I said, the worst thing the whips can do is deselect. That would probably sound like a hollow threat if there were more than a few as such rebels have more power than ever this time with the majority being so small. Don't forget that if a few rebels decide not to support the government on a confidence vote, they're out.

 

When John Major was operating on a majority not much smaller than this in the mid '90s there was plenty of rebellion and major decisions were changed in order to accommodate just a few MPs.

Edited August 11, 2015 by unbeliever

[Anna B]

As a complete neutral and an observer:

I personally think the end of the Labour party is near.

( evidence: where is Gordon Brown? Ed? His brother? TB - No one is even bothered to ask … )

 

 

Again, as a complete neutral and an observer, can a political party survive when a fairly different and fresh leadership candidate get slaughtered by …., not the Conservatives … but by those who thought and felt they built a solid self-serving empire but discovered a gentle breeze took it away in less than 3 minutes?

 

To me it is a clear indication that the party has no foundation to stand on

That was my neutral point of view

 

The world has changed since the economic crash of 2008. The Labour party hasn't moved with it.

 

It had only recently (in relative terms) gone from a very left wing Labour party to 'New Labour' when Tony Blair announced 'we're all middle class now.' It had taken a huge struggle to get there, after years of fighting marxism in the party, to become electable. It's not surprising that they're scared witless that it will happen again if they go back to the old ways.

 

However, are we all middle class since the crash? The economy changed overnight, austerity hit and impoverished some people in a way not seen since the thirties, they certainly don't feel middle class anymore. And an awful lot has come to light with regards to big corporations, croneyism, corruption, expenses and tax etc. thanks to the internet, investigative journalism and the work of people like Occupy. Politicians are no longer seen as the upholders of all that's right and proper.

 

The working class needs a champion again. The electorate needs someone who represents their needs and feelings. Is Jeremy Corbyn that champion? Well he could be. He's certainly more left wing than Tony Blair and defends the underdog more, but is he a Marxist? I doubt it, but I will be investigating.

 

Politicians of all parties have been discredited. Corbyn now probably represents the middle ground and ordinary working people more than Tony multi-millionaire Blair and the rest of the well heeled Oxbridge Labour shadow cabinet, and certainly more than anyone in the Tory party. He also seems an honest, decent sort of man, with some old fashioned integrity.

 

Will he be able to steer a steady course between big business, enterprise, jobs, unions and the needs of the people of this country? I hope so, but as yet he is untested. It depends how he handles the leadership and the party during his time in opposition. If he fails you can be sure he will be out on his ear.

 

People have been agitating for political change since the world turned on its head in 2008. It's a big ask. I personally think he should probably be given a chance to try.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Anna B

[unbeliever]

The world has changed since the economic crash of 2008. The Labour party hasn't moved with it.

 

It had only recently (in relative terms) gone from a very left wing Labour party to 'New Labour' when Tony Blair announced 'we're all middle class now.' It had taken a huge struggle to get there, after years of fighting marxism in the party, to become electable. It's not surprising that they're scared witless that it will happen again if they go back to the old ways.

 

Quite so.

 

However, are we all middle class since the crash? The economy changed overnight, austerity hit and impoverished some people in a way not seen since the thirties, they certainly don't feel middle class anymore. And an awful lot has come to light with regards to big corporations, croneyism, corruption, expenses and tax etc. thanks to the internet, investigative journalism and the work of people like Occupy. Politicians are no longer seen as the upholders of all that's right and proper.

 

The working class needs a champion again. The electorate needs someone who represents their needs and feelings. Is Jeremy Corbyn that champion? Well he could be. He's certainly more left wing than Tony Blair and defends the underdog more, but is he a Marxist? I doubt it, but I will be investigating.

 

Politicians of all parties have been discredited. Corbyn now probably represents the middle ground and ordinary working people more than Tony multi-millionaire Blair and the rest of the well heeled Oxbridge Labour shadow cabinet, and certainly more than anyone in the Tory party. He also seems an honest, decent sort of man, with some old fashioned integrity.

 

Will he be able to steer a steady course between big business, enterprise, jobs, unions and the needs of the people of this country? I hope so, but as yet he is untested. It depends how he handles the leadership and the party during his time in opposition. If he fails you can be sure he will be out on his ear.

 

People have been agitating for political change since the world turned on its head in 2008. It's a big ask. I personally think he should probably be given a chance to try.

 

I presume this is the modern socialist definition of the word austerity, which seems to mean "not increasing public spending as fast as we would like".

As opposed to the proper meaning of the word which would be "making everybody poorer" in Labour's case by crashing the economy.

 

I suppose you might be right. Maybe Labour did crash the economy on purpose so that there would be more poor people dependent on the state to survive. It's far more likely that they're just a bunch of muppets.

Lurching further toward statism is just going to seal their doom though.

 

Corbyn does seem like a decent man, but he's pushing a failed ideology and there are still enough people around who remember the '70s.

If you really want to rescue the party, get the other Milliband back. Really should have been him the last time as that's who the party voted for. Like him or not (and I don't) he's competent and convincing.

Edited August 11, 2015 by unbeliever

[Vague_Boy]

I do however believe that we do need politicians, but politicians who show respect to our intelligence.

 

Without wishing to seem cynical, I think modern politician already give the general public's intelligence pretty much all the consideration it deserves.

 

Individually people are smart, collectively they're as thick as pig****.

[Eric Arthur]

Corbyn has principles. Vote for him.

 

Wouldn't some kind of ointment be more use?