The Bible is a awesome Book even if you dont believe its Gods word

[GhostRiders]

Clearly someone who refuses to debate has lost the argument, free will is the overwhelming message of the bible and no way fits into my church, only if you fully understand what we stand for would you join, you would never be asked to join we use all translations not just one. You don't like a whole group of people and refuses to offer reason.

This reminds me of antisemitism and Hittler

I would strongly advise any reasonable person to disregard this poster on this subject maybe he has expertise in other area

We offer a balanced look with historical facts in a neutral venue

The truth is that the bible is worth a look for many many reasons

I

 

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying.

 

I'm not refusing to debate, I've spent years trying to debate to absolutely no end whatsoever.

 

You don't offer a balanced view, you offer people Bible study classes where you show them pseudo reasoning and dismiss all those who oppose you.

 

You make false scientific claims and when it's challenged in your arena you threaten people with legal action because you think the power of your numbers will scare them into submission. When it's in the public arena and it's challenged you simply lie, when those lies are challenged you clam up and disappear until you think the challenger has disappeared then you return to prey on the gullible again.

 

Trying to turn this around on me simply shows everyone the tactics you employ - if you can't beat them discredit them. You sir are a charlatan. I know who you are, I know your circumstances, I'm not going to use that on a public forum against you, but try to turn this around again to dismiss me like this post and trust me I'll lay everything out in public.

 

I'm debating with other forum members on this issue. I've stated what I think of your organisation. I hope you take the hint and don't reply to me again.

[flamingjimmy]

Clearly someone who refuses to debate has lost the argument

That's you though buddy, you started this thread and have so far completely refused to debate in favour of your thread title.

 

Several people, myself included, have spent some time refuting your assertion, quite effectively. You have ignored them. Only choosing to address the guy who said it was equivalent to the hobbit, and the guy who said all religion should be banned, but never responding to anyone who actually raised sensible points, except to call them satan.

 

To give one example I've been asking since page 1 of this thread for you to explain how a book that doesn't condemn slavery or rape can possibly be considered a good guide for living a moral life.

 

You have completely refused to address this, for the entire week this thread's been running, despite repeated promptings from myself and a couple of others.

Edited September 6, 2015 by flamingjimmy

[apelike]

Clearly someone who refuses to debate has lost the argument, free will is the overwhelming message of the bible and no way fits into my church, only if you fully understand what we stand for would you join, you would never be asked to join we use all translations not just one. You don't like a whole group of people and refuses to offer reason.

 

 

This reminds me of antisemitism and Hittler

 

 

Anyone who uses this is the one who has lost the argument.

 

Wasn't it God that caused a flood and killed mankind? Didn't God also kill many others because he didn't like what they were doing despite giving them free will?

 

But just to clear things up just what do you stand for?

[janie48]

 

To give one example I've been asking since page 1 of this thread for you to explain how a book that doesn't condemn slavery or rape can possibly be considered a good guide for living a moral life.

 

You have completely refused to address this, for the entire week this thread's been running, despite repeated promptings from myself and a couple of others.

Instead of pouring contempt on anyone who is inspired by scriptures from the books in the bible, which would include, not only Christians from virtually every race including black people descended from slaves (who in spite of that still choose to be guided by the bible) as well as those Jews who only follow the books in the old testament, you might question why there is so much slavery nowadays. Such as forced labour, sex slavery and human trafficking etc.

But you won't unless you can blame all immorality on Christians.

[poppet2]

That's you though buddy, you started this thread and have so far completely refused to debate in favour of your thread title.

 

Several people, myself included, have spent some time refuting your assertion, quite effectively. You have ignored them. Only choosing to address the guy who said it was equivalent to the hobbit, and the guy who said all religion should be banned, but never responding to anyone who actually raised sensible points, except to call them satan.

 

To give one example I've been asking since page 1 of this thread for you to explain how a book that doesn't condemn slavery or rape can possibly be considered a good guide for living a moral life.

 

You have completely refused to address this, for the entire week this thread's been running, despite repeated promptings from myself and a couple of others.

 

Where does it state rape and slavery isn't to be condemned?

[unbeliever]

Instead of pouring contempt on anyone who is inspired by scriptures from the books in the bible, which would include, not only Christians from virtually every race including black people descended from slaves (who in spite of that still choose to be guided by the bible) as well as those Jews who only follow the books in the old testament, you might question why there is so much slavery nowadays. Such as forced labour, sex slavery and human trafficking etc.

But you won't unless you can blame all immorality on Christians.

 

What absolute nonsense.

Nobody said that Christianity was the root of all evil. Or even that religion was the root of all evil.

 

It's just hard to take seriously a moral guide which endorses things which are almost universally recognised in secular society as evil.

 

Maybe each of these books represented the best wisdom of their time. I don't know. Maybe they were a step in the right direction from an even worse morality which preceded them. It seems unlikely but one can't rule it out.

But they are clearly far out of date and you really need advanced skills in selective interpretation to classify them as good moral guides for the modern world.

 

Not to mention the fact that they are all very derivative of older philosophy and ideas which established similar and in many cases superior moral codes long before they were written.

Essentially every key idea in the Bible is a rip off. All these holy books did was introduce ideas into Bronze age Palestine which were already established elsewhere in the world.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2015 at 18:14 ----------

 

Where does it state rape and slavery isn't to be condemned?

 

Took me about 30 seconds to find these on the web:

 

1. God drowns the whole earth.

In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.

2. God kills half a million people.

In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.

3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.

In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.

4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.

In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.

5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.

In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites – men, women, children, infants, and their cattle – for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.

6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.

In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)

7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.

In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.

8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks.

In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.

9. God burns two cities to death.

In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.

10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.

In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears “maul” the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means “to tear apart.”)

11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.

In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.

12. 3,000 crushed to death.

In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.

13. A concubine raped and dismembered.

In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master’s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.

14. Child sacrifice.

In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites.

15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.

In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.

16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.

In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.

17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.

In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.

18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother’s widow.

In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow.

19. God threatens forced cannibalism.

In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.

20. The coming slaughter.

According to Revelation 9:7-19, God’s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth’s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.

 

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

 

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

 

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

 

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

 

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Edited September 6, 2015 by unbeliever

[poppet2]

What absolute nonsense.

Nobody said that Christianity was the root of all evil. Or even that religion was the root of all evil.

 

It's just hard to take seriously a moral guide which endorses things which are almost universally recognised in secular society as evil.

 

Maybe each of these books represented the best wisdom of their time. I don't know. Maybe they were a step in the right direction from an even worse morality which preceded them. It seems unlikely but one can't rule it out.

But they are clearly far out of date and you really need advanced skills in selective interpretation to classify them as good moral guides for the modern world.

 

Not to mention the fact that they are all very derivative of older philosophy and ideas which established similar and in many cases superior moral codes long before they were written.

Essentially every key idea in the Bible is a rip off. All these holy books did was introduce ideas into Bronze age Palestine which were already established elsewhere in the world.

 

---------- Post added 06-09-2015 at 18:14 ----------

 

 

Took me about 30 seconds to find these on the web:

 

1. God drowns the whole earth.

In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.

2. God kills half a million people.

In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.

3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.

In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.

4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.

In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.

5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.

In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites – men, women, children, infants, and their cattle – for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.

6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.

In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)

7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.

In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.

8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks.

In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.

9. God burns two cities to death.

In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.

10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.

In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears “maul” the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means “to tear apart.”)

11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.

In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.

12. 3,000 crushed to death.

In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.

13. A concubine raped and dismembered.

In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master’s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.

14. Child sacrifice.

In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites.

15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.

In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.

16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.

In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.

17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.

In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.

18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother’s widow.

In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow.

19. God threatens forced cannibalism.

In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.

20. The coming slaughter.

According to Revelation 9:7-19, God’s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth’s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.

 

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

 

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

 

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

 

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

 

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

 

Have you not contacted a Jewish rabbi to answer your questions? The Old Testament laws were for the Israelites only. No doubt jewish rabbi's will be able to answer why God was so severe with the Israelites.

[unbeliever]

Have you not contacted a Jewish rabbi to answer your questions? The Old Testament laws were for the Israelites only. No doubt jewish rabbi's will be able to answer why God was so severe with the Israelites.

 

The old testament is part of the bible and therefore part of christianity.

Also, Ephesians is new testament and Ephesians 6:5 is a clear endorsement of slavery.

 

Matthew 24:37-42 (new testament), Jesus approves of the Noah genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.

 

There's also: 1 Timothy 6:1-2 - 1 All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. 2 Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.

And: Colossians 4:1 - 1 Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven.

Both from the new testament.

Edited September 6, 2015 by unbeliever

[janie48]

What absolute nonsense.

Nobody said that Christianity was the root of all evil. Or even that religion was the root of all evil.

 

It's just hard to take seriously a moral guide which endorses things which are almost universally recognised in secular society as evil.

 

Maybe each of these books represented the best wisdom of their time. I don't know. Maybe they were a step in the right direction from an even worse morality which preceded them. It seems unlikely but one can't rule it out.

But they are clearly far out of date and you really need advanced skills in selective interpretation to classify them as good moral guides for the modern world.

 

Not to mention the fact that they are all very derivative of older philosophy and ideas which established similar and in many cases superior moral codes long before they were written.

Essentially every key idea in the Bible is a rip off. All these holy books did was introduce ideas into Bronze age Palestine which were already established elsewhere in the world.

I've said my piece, and I haven't come on here to discuss the bible with anyone.

Especially with someone who believes the sixty six or so books in the bible are all a pack of lies, made quite apparent by the selective passages you have collected to support your agenda.

[GhostRiders]

I'm not quite sure that's their agenda.

 

I may well be wrong but I read it as saying that the Bible isn't all peace and love and there are some sections Christians don't highlight because it in fact goes against their agenda.

 

Like I said though I may have interpreted it wrong.