RonJeremy Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If acting without basic humanity leads to less people trying to make the journey, and therefore less people dying trying, then should we be acting with basic humanity? Perhaps we need a more sophisticated level of humanity i.e. one that considers the bigger picture and wider outcomes? If acting with basic humanity leads to the fall of the EU, countries embracing nationalism and a backlash against migrants then should we be acting with basic humanity? Is that a price worth paying to make us feel better about ourselves? Sometimes we have to take tough decision. In war a commander will inevitably have to sacrifice some of his own for the great good. In order to get the best outcome they have to put aside 'basic humanity' and make tough decisions and devise strategy that will result in the best outcomes. We are seeing none of that now. We have leaders and bleeding hearts focused entirely on what is on front of them and no consideration is being given to the bigger picture. The focus is 'how can we make ourselves feel better' and not 'what course of action will result in the best long-term outcome'. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It is the inevitable consequence of sending out the word that if you can reach Europe you'll be allowed to stay. Nothing to do with the ongoing Syrian Civil War? 2 million people just woke up and fancied a change of scenery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Do you believe that he and his family were on a perilous boat crossing which they (the adults at least) knew could well result in their deaths, because they thought that they could earn more in the UK? Because that's what a migrant is. Or do you believe that they were fleeing a war zone, where they were likely to be shot whilst trying to buy food? Because that's what a refugee is. . Weren't this boy and his family sailing from Turkey,where they'd been living for a year, and trying to get to Kos? Is Turkey now a war zone? Genuine question.. Edited September 3, 2015 by truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Your "big picture" is just an excuse to let children drown in the med. Tell us how you see the big picture panning out? Will opening Europe up to migrants from Africa and the Middle East lead to less children dying or isn't that important? Don't we need to consider how many more it will tempt to make the journey and end up drowning? Don't we need to consider what mass exodus will mean for the people left behind who may face slow and painful deaths as the economies of their country collapse and food and medicine runs out? You use 'basic humanity' as an excuse to not think about the consequence of our decisions because you are frighten it may be necessary to make tougher decisions for better overall outcomes. You put your own feelings first and the lives of others second. I don't want children drowning in the Med and it is pathetic to suggest that anyone who doesn't agree with your position does. I want the best overall outcome and the course of action you support isn't going to deliver it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodmally Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The thing I cannot understand about this crisis and is a question thats never been aswered. These people are fleeing persecution so coming to Europe to seek asylum. This bit makes sense but why are they in Calais? Surely they would seek assylum in the first country they settle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsexydoug Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Weren't this boy and his family sailing from Turkey and trying to get to Kos? Is Turkey now a war zone? Genuine question.. I believe so, in fact it's the holiday resort of bodrum they were fleeing from, it's stunningly beautiful too ! I have no idea why they decided to get on a boat to leave their !, it makes no sense to me as Greece's problems are well documented ! Edited September 3, 2015 by bigsexydoug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrystottle Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 All that matters is what will happen across Europe if millions are allowed to settle ... what do you think is going to happen? Do you really think it will result in a multi-culture utopia with equality for all? ( Exactly right. It will just increase social tensions, encourage political authoritarianism and make accessing jobs, healthcare and housing even more difficult. Do people think that this is only a problem for this year? That if we let all the "migrants" in that everything will just be OK? This is only the start. There are millions upon millions of poor people in the world - do they all have the absolute right to walk into Europe? What I'm reading from some posters on here seems to be "Yes". Which is a point of view that is just crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Nothing to do with the ongoing Syrian Civil War? 2 million people just woke up and fancied a change of scenery? That provides the motivation for leaving but the decision to make the journey is driven by the fact that we are letting them stay if they can get here. If we didn't let them stay then the majority would not risk the journey on the off-chance they can slip through the net. Besides, I'll ask you too (someone may one day answer)... what about the big picture? What sort of reception will millions of migrants receive in Europe? What will it do to our economies? What changes might we see to the political landscape - shift the the right by any chance? Will it result in more tolerance or less? Are we likely to see any cultural clashes? And what about those left behind... what does a mass exodus mean for them? Have you given that any thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyM Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Upon reading many of the comments on this thread I feel pleased that I'm not alone in my views and feelings on this subject. The sad example of the child dying doesn't (and shouldn't) change anything. What is required is that the debate remains one that is based on facts and not emotion. The facts, as I (and many others) are that the UK and other European countries cannot be held accountable for the situation in the countries of origin of these migrants or refugees. The UK has already contributed huge funds to assist Syrian nationals resident in Turkey already. We already have serious problems with immigration that is seriously detrimental to the social cohesion of our nation and I am concerned that continuing this and admitting the migrants would both cause social division and a deterioration in living standards for many British people in need of help. We cannot take in more people, legal or not. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Weren't this boy and his family sailing from Turkey,where they'd been living for a year, and trying to get to Kos? Is Turkey now a war zone? Genuine question.. Do you have some information about the background of this family? I haven't seen it. ---------- Post added 03-09-2015 at 10:55 ---------- The thing I cannot understand about this crisis and is a question thats never been aswered. These people are fleeing persecution so coming to Europe to seek asylum. This bit makes sense but why are they in Calais? Surely they would seek assylum in the first country they settle? Because there's no possibility that they speak English and not Spanish, German or French for example... There are interviews of the people in Calais where they've answered this question, look them up. ---------- Post added 03-09-2015 at 10:56 ---------- That provides the motivation for leaving but the decision to make the journey is driven by the fact that we are letting them stay if they can get here. If we didn't let them stay then the majority would not risk the journey on the off-chance they can slip through the net. This is nonsense. They'd still flee the war, because civilians are being killed. And the majority of refugees have gone the neighbouring countries. A few thousand come here and you're all for letting them drown in the med. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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