BarryRiley Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Do you have some information about the background of this family? I haven't seen it. They were coming from Turkey. You're under the impression that every journey these people make is to save theirs and their children's lives but it's just not true. Once they're out of Syria their lives are safe in terms of being the victims of war or oppression. Many of them then further put their lives at risk by going onwards to a country with more prosperity. They are taking it upon themselves to choose which countries they travel to and in the course of these journeys they are enduring the perilous journeys. In terms of the large group travelling north at the moment: - They escaped the Syrian war in to Turkey - They left Turkey as they didn't want to be there and arrived in Greece - They left Greece because they didn't want to be part of the economic crisis - They entered northern border countries such as Hungary and FYROM - They refused to be registered in FYROM and Hungary because it didn't match whatever their criteria was and will only settle for Germany and the UK How are we supposed to help these people other than putting them on a plane to the country of their choosing. They expect Europe to rehome them where they want to rehomed rather than redistributed under European rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomass Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 They certainly had a hand in creating the situations. Fortunately many people disagree with you. The problem is that many people also disagree with you and when people disagree with each other they sometimes resort to fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Do you have some information about the background of this family? I haven't seen it. The DM has some details here: According to Mr Kurdi's Facebook page, he was originally from Damascus in Syria but had been living in Istanbul, Turkey. He uploaded a photograph of himself in Turkey in August 2014. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219553/Terrible-fate-tiny-boy-symbolises-desperation-thousands-Body-drowned-Syrian-refugee-washed-Turkish-beach-family-tried-reach-Europe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If we had been taking in all the migrants that wanted to come to this country since, say, the beginning of the year, how would that have stopped this poor 3 yr old drowning in the med? Hopefully because a more unified system for handling migration and asylum applications would have been put into place, meaning people could claim asylum from outside the EU and not need to risk death to touch EU soil before they can claim. That would have helped for starters. It would also fix the issue of how to deport failed asylum seekers as they wouldn't be within the EU to begin with. A unified system where successful asylum seekers are repatriated to a suitable country based on both the languages skills, culture and contacts of the refugee within the EU, and also the ability of such country to integrate those people. For example, if they spoke English fluently they would likely be placed in the UK unless other factors like they had family in another country or had a certain skill set of use to another country or that the UK had filled a certain quota etc. Difficult to implement a system fairly, but that surely has to be better than the death, suffering and free for all system we have currently where people smugglers are currently the only ones 'winning' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 There are many showing great sympathy for the refugees and the situation they are fleeing from. I would like to know their views on how to alleviate the problems of the old, infirm, sick and poor unable to escape the same conditions if the young and fit leave the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 There are many showing great sympathy for the refugees and the situation they are fleeing from. I would like to know their views on how to alleviate the problems of the old, infirm, sick and poor unable to escape the same conditions if the young and fit leave the country. And there you have hit the root cause on the head. And I have absolutely no idea, and I am <SWEAR WORD> glad I'm not a politician at the moment because I'd probably just sit in a corner crying and that definitely isn't going to fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 No, I was trying to understand your position where you said that Europe cannot be help accountable, and trying to work out where it fits in when helping out refugees. I think that Europe (well some countries) does have some responsibility for what has happened in countries like Iraq and Syria but the real question is not whether we have responsibility but will the people accept it in the form of millions of migrants? The answer is plain to see if we look at polls on attitudes towards immigration and the rise of nationalist and far right parties across Europe. Right or wrong, like it or not, the reality is these migrants are not going to be accepted and the consequences of ignoring that fact will be devastating for us and them. This reminds me of the Iraq invasion all over again. People didn't think beyond the obvious solution to a dictatorship that upset our sense of justice. Invasion was deemed a noble and honourable course of action that would save the people of Iraq... it was BS. It killed more people than Saddam ever did and unleashed a madness that continues to cause greater misery and death then life under Saddam. It also fuelled a worldwide increase in Islamic extremism that will plague generations to come. No long term thinking, no big picture, no focus on strategies to ensure the best overall outcomes. Short-term, emotionally driven (with a little help by big business) madness. And we're doing it again and making exactly the same sort of argument for ill-considered, knee jerk reactions... 'so you want to sit by and watch children die? and 'it is an humanitarian obligation to intervene'. Where is the thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Due to people like you conflating immigration, migrants and refugees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryRiley Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Due to people like you conflating immigration, migrants and refugees. Didn't you say earlier we should refer to them all as refugees, despite the fact that many of them don't come under the UN definition of a refugee? Technically most of them are 'economic migrants' since they have moved from the first safe country to a different country based on the economic prosperity, if you want to refer to them correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Due to people like you conflating immigration, migrants and refugees. Will the response to millions of people entering Europe from Africa and the Middle East be any different if they are labelled refugees instead of migrants? Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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