hamatik Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) These scroats in town need to be rounded up and put on an island...ruin it for normal folk.Those are very modern, progressive views you have there TJC1. ...Oh hang on a minute, isn't that what they did in the 18th Century? (Australia.) EDIT - My point is that's what society used to do in the past, and it obviously hasn't improved the situation if you're still experiencing the same problem. Also, since you love stats, I would be inclined to check the crime statistics from eras when punishment for petty crime was a lot more severe, and check if it reduced crimes against fine, upstanding citizens much like yourself. Edited September 10, 2015 by hamatik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 That doesn't alter the fact that your comments about homelessness are rooted in ignorance. No there not... ---------- Post added 10-09-2015 at 12:57 ---------- Those are very modern, progressive views you have there TJC1. ...Oh hang on a minute, isn't that what they did in the 18th Century? (Australia.) EDIT - My point is that's what society used to do in the past, and it obviously hasn't improved the situation if you're still experiencing the same problem. Also, since you love stats, I would be inclined to check the crime statistics from eras when punishment for petty crime was a lot more severe, and check if it reduced crimes against fine, upstanding citizens much like yourself. I'm a modern progressive guy...take your liberal rose tinted specs off and see it for what it is... What on earth has historical punishments got to do with nuisance drunks, druggies and the timeshare healthy dog owning homeless? These aren't destitutes...smoking their marlboro fags, its a vocation and easy pickings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamatik Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm a modern progressive guy...take your liberal rose tinted specs off and see it for what it is... What on earth has historical punishments got to do with nuisance drunks, druggies and the timeshare healthy dog owning homeless? These aren't destitutes...smoking their marlboro fags, its a vocation and easy pickings. Genuine apologies for my judgement of your views, based on a single issue. I don't get a kick out of bickering on forums, so I am sorry, sincerely. But it was you who suggested sending the homeless, and/or drug addicts, and/or alcoholics to an island - it wasn't suggested by me. This is a punishment handed out historically, and I'm just suggesting that you look at historical precedents for the punishments you wish to hand out, and check the effect they had on the issues you want to deal with. I understand the instinctive resentment towards them, and your genuinely positive intent to improve the environment for working, law-abiding citiziens. I know your intentions have integrity. But it's important to consider the historical effect that certain actions have before implementing them. Quite often these actions can be counter productive and cause more harm than good, or at the least just not improve the situation at all. And yes, I am a cliché lefty liberal who probably needs to stop being so idealistic. Guilty as charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avblade09 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Technically they are already on an island.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Genuine apologies for my judgement of your views, based on a single issue. I don't get a kick out of bickering on forums, so I am sorry, sincerely. But it was you who suggested sending the homeless, and/or drug addicts, and/or alcoholics to an island - it wasn't suggested by me. This is a punishment handed out historically, and I'm just suggesting that you look at historical precedents for the punishments you wish to hand out, and check the effect they had on the issues you want to deal with. I understand the instinctive resentment towards them, and your genuinely positive intent to improve the environment for working, law-abiding citiziens. I know your intentions have integrity. But it's important to consider the historical effect that certain actions have before implementing them. Quite often these actions can be counter productive and cause more harm than good, or at the least just not improve the situation at all. And yes, I am a cliché lefty liberal who probably needs to stop being so idealistic. Guilty as charged. I lived with a woman who ran a 2 year long project as a social worker helping genuine homeless cases. ... she said categorically 'nobody should be homeless up north'. And many of the people she dealt with actually have council houses. I think she said there was about a dozen genuine cases. You are a priority if homeless or any of the other priority categories. A lot of these people choose to be on the streets because thats where there mates are...and they can get money through begging, petty theft...generally being a nuisance. ---------- Post added 10-09-2015 at 14:06 ---------- West st, devonshire green, its full of them. ---------- Post added 10-09-2015 at 14:07 ---------- And if you give them money its going straight on smack, crack, fags or booze... ---------- Post added 10-09-2015 at 14:10 ---------- To put into context I've seen genuine hardship in other cities lived in. Some of these idiots, sitting by a cashpoint are young fit men. Its sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamatik Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 To put into context I've seen genuine hardship in other cities lived in. Some of these idiots, sitting by a cashpoint are young fit men. Its sad.I'm not debating for a minute that they haven't thrown a lot of chances away, or that they aren't capable of working. I'm not saying we should all hand over our disposable income to drug addicts, or anything like that. But the whole origin of this debate is that we should recognise how high our quality of life is, and that we don't actually live in a violent, dangerous environment where it's relatively unsafe to walk down a street in town. That was the original point from which this debate has evolved. Personally, even though these people have undoubtedly thrown chances away, and even though they're probably addicted to something or other which dominates their lives, I still feel a sense of empathy towards them. But just to re-iterate, that wasn't the point of debate, and I'm sure we disagree on that, which I totally respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) No there not... y Nobody need be homeless in this day and age. Many of these people are playing at it....because that's where all there mates are, drinking, smoking and taking drugs. maybe if they wanted to get off crack etc. and stopped sponging off people, we would have more compassion. Yes, they most clearly are. http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_campaign/tackling_homelessness/What_causes_homelessness https://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/66379/Homelessness_factsheet.pdf http://www.crisis.org.uk/data/files/publications/factfile_Full.pdf Now perhaps if you'd said that some of these people AREN'T homeless, I'd have probably agree with you. But you didn't say that. Edited September 10, 2015 by Cyclone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm not debating for a minute that they haven't thrown a lot of chances away, or that they aren't capable of working. I'm not saying we should all hand over our disposable income to drug addicts, or anything like that. But the whole origin of this debate is that we should recognise how high our quality of life is, and that we don't actually live in a violent, dangerous environment where it's relatively unsafe to walk down a street in town. That was the original point from which this debate has evolved. Personally, even though these people have undoubtedly thrown chances away, and even though they're probably addicted to something or other which dominates their lives, I still feel a sense of empathy towards them. But just to re-iterate, that wasn't the point of debate, and I'm sure we disagree on that, which I totally respect. empathy exists with giving to charities - not funding some lowlifes booze and fag habit. I never said we live in a dangerous city in general. I pointed out based on the police data the city centre is between 10 and 60 times more dangerous / more anti-social than other places in sheffield. ---------- Post added 10-09-2015 at 16:11 ---------- Yes, they most clearly are. http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_campaign/tackling_homelessness/What_causes_homelessness https://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/66379/Homelessness_factsheet.pdf http://www.crisis.org.uk/data/files/publications/factfile_Full.pdf Now perhaps if you'd said that some of these people AREN'T homeless, I'd have probably agree with you. But you didn't say that. I did say that.....you are getting the wrong end of stick as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 empathy exists with giving to charities - not funding some lowlifes booze and fag habit. Surely empathy would exist if you attempted to put yourself in the homeless persons situation, and try to understand why they are in that situation in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I suppose you think spitting, swearing, touting for money and petty theft is acceptable? ---------- Post added 10-09-2015 at 16:15 ---------- Surely empathy would exist if you attempted to put yourself in the homeless persons situation, and try to understand why they are in that situation in the first place? what im saying is most of these people ARENT homeless.....have you seen my posts? ---------- Post added 10-09-2015 at 16:16 ---------- just nuisances....hanging out in town because that's where they can get money and theft to buy crack and fags and booze... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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