Making the poor better off

[Anna B]

I can understand most people wanting to eradicate absolute poverty, to have people starving in a modern world is a disgrace, but as the destitute in Africa have shown, handouts that keep them just above destitution doesn't solve the problem, it just keeps them alive.

 

The problem is work. There need to be enough jobs that pay well enough for people to live without the need for tax credits or other kinds of top ups. At the moment, many people who can't get these jobs, (there is an awful lot of competition,) often try self-employment, but even the most basic set up, costs money that someone on £70 a week can't afford. These days there are all sorts of hurdles that cost money that the poorest can't afford, such as equipment, licences, insurances, etc even for something as basic as a window cleaning round, or a burger van.

 

Grants that used to be available are now almost impossible to get, in spite of what you might hear. They have nearly all been replaced by loans which charge interest and aren't available to people with a poor credit score.

If it doesn't work out, you can't just walk away, as there are debts involved which grow.

 

The other problem is the cost of decent training for a decent job. The last time I looked, a bricklaying course was over £800, which might not seem like much to some, but is a fortune when you have nothing, and of course a job isn't guaranteed at the end of it.

 

Personally, I think the way to get people out of poverty is to work on these areas; invest in people and training, and extend it to people over 25+

[RickyM]

I can understand most people wanting to eradicate absolute poverty, to have people starving in a modern world is a disgrace, but as the destitute in Africa have shown, handouts that keep them just above destitution doesn't solve the problem, it just keeps them alive.

 

The problem is work. There need to be enough jobs that pay well enough for people to live without the need for tax credits or other kinds of top ups. At the moment, many people who can't get these jobs, (there is an awful lot of competition,) often try self-employment, but even the most basic set up, costs money that someone on £70 a week can't afford. These days there are all sorts of hurdles that cost money that the poorest can't afford, such as equipment, licences, insurances, etc even for something as basic as a window cleaning round, or a burger van.

 

Grants that used to be available are now almost impossible to get, in spite of what you might hear. They have nearly all been replaced by loans which charge interest and aren't available to people with a poor credit score.

If it doesn't work out, you can't just walk away, as there are debts involved which grow.

 

The other problem is the cost of decent training for a decent job. The last time I looked, a bricklaying course was over £800, which might not seem like much to some, but is a fortune when you have nothing, and of course a job isn't guaranteed at the end of it.

 

Personally, I think the way to get people out of poverty is to work on these areas; invest in people and training, and extend it to people over 25+

 

This is just tinkering with the edges........we need a new society.

 

A society that works together and not against each other whilst being played and exploited by fatcats and corporations.

 

Let's fight poverty together by getting rid of the Tories and their fatcats once and for all.

 

Are you in?

[unbeliever]

This is just tinkering with the edges........we need a new society.

 

A society that works together and not against each other whilst being played and exploited by fatcats and corporations.

 

Let's fight poverty together by getting rid of the Tories and their fatcats once and for all.

 

Are you in?

 

Nobody is "in".

You don't have a plan. You want a revolution with no idea of what is to follow.

A society has to have a framework.

[RickyM]

Nobody is "in".

You don't have a plan. You want a revolution with no idea of what is to follow.

A society has to have a framework.

 

Let's get together and plan a new framework because the current one isn't working.

 

We can get rid of poverty and it's associated problems once and for all.

 

Karl Marx had some good ideas that we can discuss.

Edited September 5, 2015 by RickyM

[I1L2T3]

We need to get rid of the Tories, the fatcats, (same thing as Tories almost) people that want to be Tories or fatcats and royalty.

 

Then...........when things get better we need another purge of society to stop more Tories and fatcats emerging.

 

See my signature

[RickyM]

See my signature

 

Your point being?

 

I want to read it and not assume it.

[El Cid]

This is all obviously coming from my own perspective. I don't think there's enough evidence on any of these matters to come to an unquestionable conclusion on the matter, but I'm very interested in opinion on the ideological goal of relative or absolute poverty reduction.

 

Quite a narrow question.

 

The goal is to give everyone an equal oppertunity, you seem to be asking about redistribution.

Its not just about giving money to the worse off, its about regulating the rewards for toil at the top and bottom of the scale.

We have had increasing equities because of QE, and massive increases in top directors pay; whilst at the same time as cutting help for the poor.

50 years ago my father bought his own house, he wasnt a skilled man, looking back now, it seems like it was much easier for him.

By that example, the unskilled are much poorer today, even after all this trickle down money from the rich.

 

Can we make things equal to 50 years ago?

[unbeliever]

Quite a narrow question.

 

The goal is to give everyone an equal oppertunity, you seem to be asking about redistribution.

Its not just about giving money to the worse off, its about regulating the rewards for toil at the top and bottom of the scale.

We have had increasing equities because of QE, and massive increases in top directors pay; whilst at the same time as cutting help for the poor.

50 years ago my father bought his own house, he wasnt a skilled man, looking back now, it seems like it was much easier for him.

By that example, the unskilled are much poorer today, even after all this trickle down money from the rich.

 

Can we make things equal to 50 years ago?

 

You seem to be angling toward the goal of relative poverty elimination.

Your father would likely have had few of the luxuries we enjoy today. Property prices are an issue, but in most regards the working poor enjoy a far higher standard of living than 50 years ago.

Are you sure you want to go back?

 

Also bear in mind that the world has moved on. There is far less room in a modern economy for unskilled labour (I'm not saying none before anybody sees the need to try and correct me). If you want to own property these days, you need to train. Semi-skilled will do if you look for a skills shortage, but you do have to train.

Edited September 5, 2015 by unbeliever

[RickyM]

You seem to be angling toward the goal of relative poverty elimination.

Your father would likely have had few of the luxuries we enjoy today. Property prices are an issue, but in most regards the working poor enjoy a far higher standard of living than 50 years ago.

Are you sure you want to go back?

 

No, let's not go back....let's go forwards but together.

 

Let's all overthrow this neo-liberal, capitalist system that ruining our way of life, society and health.

 

We need something new and different.

[unbeliever]

No, let's not go back....let's go forwards but together.

 

Let's all overthrow this neo-liberal, capitalist system that ruining our way of life, society and health.

 

We need something new and different.

 

Like what?

Your only hint at what your new society might be like is a stated fondness for Marx.

You understand that all attempts at implementing a Marxist society have ended in despotic ruin surely.

 

Hey, that idea for a society which killed all those millions of people, shall we try that again?

The answer is clearly "no".