Making the poor better off

[unbeliever]

How other countries govern themselves interests me. We can learn from other countries. Which capitalist counties are 'doing it right'?

 

There's no right or wrong unless you agree on a goal. That's what this thread was started for.

The US has experienced roughly twice the growth of Europe since the second world war. They have a far less generous welfare system. There are unfortunately still people in the US who live in genuine poverty, so they've probably taken it too far. Their state education system is also lacking. But the GDP/capita is very impressive.

The German model is interesting. Their state education system is very good, and the vast majority have a high standard of living. It is quite possible though in Germany to find oneself unemployed with no entitlement to benefits at all, "welfare" being time limited. The healthcare system is a private/state hybrid such that those with insurance enjoy a higher standard of service, but outcomes are good across the board. German growth since WW2 is impressive though it has lagged behind the US.

I'm not an expert on these things, but these 2 stand out to me as models we could selectively learn from.

[gomgeg]

Stop the computers taking over???

Great we'll all be able to write to SF with quills on parchment, that should slow things down nicely and create jobs.

[dangerousedd]

Stop the computers taking over???

Great we'll all be able to write to SF with quills on parchment, that should slow things down nicely and create jobs.

 

 

well eventually most things will be automated so everybody will have to be allocated a basic allowance, that's if civilisation lasts that long.

[El Cid]

There's no right or wrong unless you agree on a goal.

 

This is what google says. I certainly don't like what is in the news at the moment, about the USA, but perhaps that is not related to it being capitalist.

 

The Top 10 Best Governed Countries In the World.

 

#1 Switzerland

 

http://www.livescience.com/33157-best-governed-countries-world.html

[Annie Bynnol]

The Top 10 Best Governed Countries In the World.

#1 Switzerland

 

 

A country where most of their levels of government has now recognised that they cannot sustain their agriculture, military and banking systems without integration into the EU. Although they can never "join" the EU, the EU now expects the Swiss to accept the main principles of the EU in return for a free trade agreement.

 

Switzerland is more divided by politics, language, race, religion, geography, class, age, money, corruption in the form local decision making than most western European countries.

A local democracy which benefits the rich and influential, where hard won civil liberties can be overturned by a referendum.

 

A political system imposed on them by invaders which wanted to create a neutral buffer zone which fitted their plans(France then Austria). A system which allows small blocks of voters to control national decisions.

 

A bit like the Australian flag and constitution where most agrees on change but disagree on what to change it to.

 

Ranking Switzerland above others in this way is silly. Nobody is perfect as every state has an evolving system which is never more than a compromise.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Annie Bynnol

[Vague_Boy]

I certainly don't like what is in the news at the moment, about the USA, but perhaps that is not related to it being capitalist

 

Treating money as if it were a commodity that can be printed as needed or conjured into being electronically rather than as a store of value is at the root of much of the West's economic problems.

 

Jeremy Corbyn's threat of money creation is the latest manifestation of this problem.

 

The very simple or the uneducated may blame such simple one-note concepts as their minds can grasp ("capitalism") and not trouble themselves with anything in the way of further thought on the matter. This has been the pattern throught history unfortunately.

[unbeliever]

well eventually most things will be automated so everybody will have to be allocated a basic allowance, that's if civilisation lasts that long.

 

I'm not convinced. There has been enormous technological progress and a great deal of automation over that last hundred years and unemployment is low.

People just move on to doing other things. They don't have to work as physically hard in many cases and enjoy a higher standard of living. It will be a very long time before there's no work left for humans to do, if ever.

[Berberis]

Yes you can. In a pure communist system, everybody would be on exactly the average.

In a highly socialist system with heavy redistribution, nobody would be very far from the average.

It's certainly not impossible or meaningless to get everybody within say +/-20% of the average. It's just impractical.

 

There is no such thing as a pure communist system so as we are not talking hypotheticals here, my comment that its impossible is correct.

[unbeliever]

There is no such thing as a pure communist system so as we are not talking hypotheticals here, my comment that its impossible is correct.

 

It's not though.

If you define poor as anybody receiving less than 80% of the average, you can eliminate such "poorness" by giving benefits to those on less than 80% of the average to bring them up to 80% of the average.

 

I'm not supporting this, but it is certainly possible.

[Berberis]

It's not though.

If you define poor as anybody receiving less than 80% of the average, you can eliminate such "poorness" by giving benefits to those on less than 80% of the average to bring them up to 80% of the average.

 

I'm not supporting this, but it is certainly possible.

 

It cannot work on percentages of an average. Simple maths proves this point.

 

You can only use real values to determine those in poverty as we do when looking outside of our boarders.