geared Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Are they terrorists though? They look are starting to look like a state to me - it's even in their name. They have land, there own currency, some form of governance at a local level and a flag. Yes it's a horrible country , it's one where land and by default population has been forcibly taken from other countries but they are a state. There might not be much in the way of official paperwork floating around but there probably isn't much in Somalia either. So if I make my own flag, print out some of my own money then I can declare my house a separate state too?? Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. ---------- Post added 08-09-2015 at 11:08 ---------- They thought much the same about Jean Charles de Menezes as well. Extrajudicial executions like this tend to make me a little nervous of the removal of oversight. I'm not sure if they ever explained the massive intelligence cockup with that case either?? They exonerated the policemen who pulled the trigger didn't they? but what about the halfwit that marked the guy for death in the first place?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I made the point that we are not, and you contradicted me and said that we are. But we are not. That's not an opinion, legally we are not at war. I don't believe a declaration of war is required for this to be legal - we've certainly taken part in many armed conflicts since WWII without one. What Cameron said, and he was no doubt advised on exactly what words to use, was it was an act of self defence. The UK launched an attack on foreign soil in order to prevent planned terrorist attacks against the UK and that there was no other way of preventing it. Self-defence is what provides legitimacy under international law. Unlike the ropey 'evidence' used to justify the invasion of Iraq, there doesn't seem to be much doubt as to the intention of these individuals and the risk they posed. They made videos where they effectively confessed and then signed their own death warrant. It isn't the British government that has questions to answer but the family and friends of these men and the community they were raised in. What sort of upbringing did they receive that lead them, and so many others, down this warped path? Why are so many from the Muslim community growing up with a defective moral compass? What is going to change in order to achieve better outcomes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 They thought much the same about Jean Charles de Menezes as well.Can you point me to de Menezes' self-publicised terrorist messages, videos, credentials and combat footage/photo? Compare apples with apples. Please. Extrajudicial executions like this tend to make me a little nervous of the removal of oversight.According to the news, plenty of oversight was sought and provided prior to pressing the big red button: this was reportedly a planned operation with boatloads of intelligence and the AG consulted about the kill order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamston Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 They thought much the same about Jean Charles de Menezes as well. Extrajudicial executions like this tend to make me a little nervous of the removal of oversight. A totally different situation . Jean Charles de Menezes was another victim of those who carried out the July 7th bombings in London . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 So if I make my own flag, print out some of my own money then I can declare my house a separate state too?? Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. ---------- Post added 08-09-2015 at 11:08 ---------- I'm not sure if they ever explained the massive intelligence cockup with that case either?? They exonerated the policemen who pulled the trigger didn't they? but what about the halfwit that marked the guy for death in the first place?? Go on, I'll bite - how does it work? Why does somewhere like South sudan get recognised and ISIS doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodmally Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 So if I make my own flag, print out some of my own money then I can declare my house a separate state too?? Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. ---------- Post added 08-09-2015 at 11:08 ---------- I'm not sure if they ever explained the massive intelligence cockup with that case either?? They exonerated the policemen who pulled the trigger didn't they? but what about the halfwit that marked the guy for death in the first place?? Charles de Menzies was a mistake. I can see how it happened but there needs to be an investigation. However these people deliberately went to Syria to fight for ISIS and got killed. I cannot see any scenario why they would be innocent and the killing of a terrorist group not be justified? Can anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'm not sure if they ever explained the massive intelligence cockup with that case either?? They exonerated the policemen who pulled the trigger didn't they? but what about the halfwit that marked the guy for death in the first place?? I think their excuse was that de Menezes had a well tanned complexion, he lived in the same block of flats as the suspect, and he left the house wearing a rucksack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryRiley Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I think they have a right to see the evidence which led to them being killed. Under which international law? If it were brought to trial then the prosecution would have access to anything which was not deemed to be a risk to national security, but being related to someone doesn't give you the right to demand to know what happened I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'm just wondering (for all those who question the legality of this action), where is the legality of ISIS? Are they a 'state'?...Nope!...Does anywhere in the world recognise them as a 'state'?..Nope (not that I'm aware of)... What are they? Basically a bunch of thugs occupying land wholesale and ruling by fear and intimidation. What do they want? A home state where they can live in peace and tranquillity?...I think not! A world eradicated of infidels and anyone who opposes their twisted view of life (whatever that is). So the RAF take out 3 of them (two British)! Who chose to go there, who chose to risk their life, in a cause 'they' believe in. That's the chance you take going to a war zone. Did they pose a danger to Britain? Plainly YES. The same as any of them that have gone there. The risk is, they actually come back! They will still hold their 'crank' beliefs, still try to radicalise others, more than likely plot some kind of atrocity on our doorstep. The only question that needs answering, is were they a threat to the UK? Yes they were, and they paid the price for their stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I don't see the problem in it either, you go over there to join there ranks and help commit their atrocities - you deserve a bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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