War on the public sector and unions

[unbeliever]

The ONS has extensive guides on its site about how it measures it, including the specific challenges of measuring public sector productivity.

 

Read up on it.

 

Take some of your own advice perhaps and provide a link?

In this case, there must be one.

[I1L2T3]

Yes.

You're patronising and insulting on a routine basis.

I suspect that is down to the weakness of your actual case. What I'm describing is not "chaos" it's simple and extremely efficient. Anything more complicated is clearly just set up to create work.

Perhaps in some cases, the flexibility I need is needed less, but I don't see how it could possibly be harmful anyway.

 

If you persist in being insulting, I'm not talking to you any more.

 

I'm not patronising and I don't insult anyone on here.

 

I will be robust with certain posts though and the structure and content of your posts often needs to be challenged. Sorry but I'm not going to stop.

[El Cid]

Take some of your own advice perhaps and provide a link?

In this case, there must be one.

 

""Productivity for public services has remained broadly constant between 1997 and 2010, with an annual average growth rate of 0.0%. Both public service output (activities performed and services delivered) and public service inputs (labour, goods and services and capital), grew by 3.0% per year on average.""

 

I would have thought that more public services were now provided by private companies, but yet zero growth rate in productivity.

 

Have you got a link to back up your argument?

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/psa/public-sector-productivity-estimates--total-public-sector/2010/index.html

[unbeliever]

I'm not patronising and I don't insult anyone on here.

 

I will be robust with certain posts though and the structure and content of your posts often needs to be challenged. Sorry but I'm not going to stop.

 

Refrain direct words like "dumb" at me, and suggesting that I need a "lesson on real life". Then we won't have a problem.

Most of us on here manage to be "robust" and challenge others' opinions without impugning the intelligence of our opponents.

You'll notice I've made no objection to El Cid's posts on here even though we've managed to disagree as much as any 2 people can on a subject.

If you don't understand what my problem is with some of your posts in reply to me, I don't think I can explain it any more clearly. I'll just content myself with ignoring your posts and debating with everybody else.

[ricgem2002]

[quote=El Cid;11171856.

I would have thought that more public services were now provided by private companies, but yet zero growth rate in productivity.

like I said before el cid so public employees other than in name and also doing a reduced service

[the_bloke]

Take some of your own advice perhaps and provide a link?

In this case, there must be one.

 

This:

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/economy/productivity-measures/productivity-handbook/public-service-productivity/chapter-9---public-service-productivity.pdf

 

If we're talking links:

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/psa/public-sector-productivity-estimates--total-public-sector/2012/art-public-service-productivity-estimates--total-public-services--2012--uk.html#tab-Key-Points

 

Productivity has increased since the cuts to public services in 2010

 

This document here is a good read, though I only skimmed it:

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/external-links/articles-and-summaries/articles/comparing-the-different-estimates-of-productivity-produced-by-the-office-for-national-statisitcs.html

 

It goes a long way to suggest that productivity in the public sector was measured in the negative whilst productivity in the private sector was measured in the positive - it's with old data though.

[El Cid]

Productivity has increased since the cuts to public services in 2010

 

 

Cutting pay in real terms will give a short term rise in productivity; but the living wage will see all pay rise by more than £1 per hour in the coming years, so a decrease in productivity is likely.

[Bonzo77]

It's vital that we fight to keep our unions. We can't let the greedy capitalist pigs have us over a barral all our lives. Screw the top few. The masses are where the power really is.

[unbeliever]

It's vital that we fight to keep our unions. We can't let the greedy capitalist pigs have us over a barral all our lives. Screw the top few. The masses are where the power really is.

 

No it isn't.

The rich have the power to leave, and before that the power to work less. If they leave you lose a lot of tax revenue and you can afford a lot less public services and pay.

This has been tried. It costs more than it makes in terms of tax revenue.

 

I honestly understand the attraction. It doesn't seem right that 2 people both trying their best may differ in income by more than a factor of 10. But idealism has to give way to practicality. The lessons of history have to be learned.

As unpleasant as it is to sometimes see the most successful capitalists flying around in their own planes, trying to stop them always does more harm than good.

[Bonzo77]

No it isn't.

The rich have the power to leave, and before that the power to work less. If they leave you lose a lot of tax revenue and you can afford a lot less public services and pay.

This has been tried. It costs more than it makes in terms of tax revenue.

 

I honestly understand the attraction. It doesn't seem right that 2 people both trying their best may differ in income by more than a factor of 10. But idealism has to give way to practicality. The lessons of history have to be learned.

As unpleasant as it is to sometimes see the most successful capitalists flying around in their own planes, trying to stop them always does more harm than good.

 

The power IS with the masses. Let them leave. They've not done us any favours. Their greed has almost destroyed the global economy, leaving it us to the masses to bail them out. Let them all sod off to an island and fend for themselves when it all inevitably goes tits up next time!!