Taxpayer support

[I1L2T3]

This thread is an interesting read:

 

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2483342-tax-credits-chat-re-cuts-2016?pg=4

 

Confusion, fear, anger, a few shots of reality.

 

I will spend some time at some point and pull out threads from previous years where they professionally coach each other in how to cut hours, give up work and game the system to the max even to the point where they guided each other use benefit income to increase the amount of mortgage they could get. Now These people have had the rug pulled from under their feet.

 

I can't criticise them. Their behaviour is totally explainable and understandable. They looked at the rules and they worked out the best way to use them for themselves.

 

The Tories position is understandable too and its a huge gamble. These tax credits need to be cut big time and cut now. These kinds of cuts have to be front loaded at the start of a parliament as they can't be made in the run-up to election because of the risk.

 

The problem is it's another experiment just like Osborne's expansionary fiscal contraction. That failed. Now he is gambling that new jobs and more hours will magically appear to fill the gap created in the standard of living for those who suffer the cuts. Looking at things rationally it won't work. The cuts are big and millions of new jobs are not going to magically appear in April. The gamble is going to be lost if Osborne continues with his plans.

[Cyclone]

I've seen it myself (not this family obviously).

 

Are you a benefit denier?

 

You're an evidence denier, you expect me to believe something that the Roundtree Foundation looked for and couldn't find, yet you can't present any evidence that it exists... I suppose you believe in Santa and God as well.

 

---------- Post added 16-10-2015 at 08:41 ----------

 

The Tories position is understandable too and its a huge gamble. These tax credits need to be cut big time and cut now.

 

That failed. Now he is gambling that new jobs and more hours will magically appear to fill the gap created in the standard of living for those who suffer the cuts. Looking at things rationally it won't work. The cuts are big and millions of new jobs are not going to magically appear in April. The gamble is going to be lost if Osborne continues with his plans.

 

So why do they "need to cut big time" at all, if it's obvious that it's going to create hardship for the poorest working people?

[floydjones]

You're an evidence denier, you expect me to believe something that the Roundtree Foundation looked for and couldn't find, yet you can't present any evidence that it exists... I suppose you believe in Santa and God as well.

 

I have yet to see an alien but I do think that they exist, I suppose you don't because you haven't seen one.

 

RonJeremy's evidence is that he knows such a family, so why would any right minded person deny what they know to be true just because someone else can't find evidence to support the claim.

[Cyclone]

I'm pretty certain that we can't say that aliens exist as a fact.

We can speculate about it, but that's all.

 

Because a public body looked and couldn't find any... If they were that easy to find they could have just asked Ron.

[RonJeremy]

You're an evidence denier, you expect me to believe something that the Roundtree Foundation looked for and couldn't find, yet you can't present any evidence that it exists... I suppose you believe in Santa and God as well.

 

Well... I'm not an evidence denier - I know and have seen such people with mine own eyes. I understand that for your own purposes you do not wish to believe me. I cant provide you with the evidence, well other than the Mail and the Mirror that someone has found kindly.

 

Santa - yes - I've seen Santa and he unloads the contents of his big red sack on my wife once a year.

 

God - I'm a little more agnostic on that one. But on the balance of probabilities, probably not. But I do know I've never seen or experienced him.

 

Why do you mention Santa and God?

[Cyclone]

I just want to see some evidence, not unverifiable anecdotes.

 

Because I don't think you actually know the entire work history of 3 generations of a single family, I think you believe it, in the same way that someone might believe in santa or god.

 

---------- Post added 16-10-2015 at 11:56 ----------

 

I wouldn't believe the DM if they said the sky was blue. I'd want to see it myself and reported again in a paper that wasn't so far in the gutter it's actually down in the sewers.

 

Oh, and to be clear, this article says

 

"the McFaddens "boast" three generations of adults who are not working."

 

NOT "who have never worked".

 

Seriously, when you try to offer proof, at least understand what you're reading!

 

---------- Post added 16-10-2015 at 11:58 ----------

 

And this is how the Tories will dismantle the social safety net, and the NHS and anything else that doesn't benefit big business.

They'll offer up a load of rubbish, people like you will swallow it all down, and they'll use this to justify their actions.

 

In years to come it will be too late, but they'll be sitting pretty since they're already rich and getting richer, and you'll be wishing that you'd never voted for them, but it will be too late.

 

Open your eyes and do some real research and thinking, instead of just swallowing what the gutter press feed you and reinforcing your prejudices.

[999tigger]

What an absolute mess this thread is.

 

Ron why not make it clear what your points are, then people might respond. They seem to change all the time. That way you can make it an intelligent discussion instead of an ill informed cripple fight.

 

How much do you know about the benefits system other than your experience as an employer and what you read in the Daily Mail?

[floydjones]

I'm pretty certain that we can't say that aliens exist as a fact.

We can speculate about it, but that's all.

 

Because a public body looked and couldn't find any... If they were that easy to find they could have just asked Ron.

 

I'm certain that if someone claims to have seen one you can't claim for a fact that they haven't, and it doesn't mean the person that encountered one is lying just because the government can't find them .

 

Its likley that they didn't put that much effort into finding them.

[999tigger]

This thread is an interesting read:

 

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2483342-tax-credits-chat-re-cuts-2016?pg=4

 

Confusion, fear, anger, a few shots of reality.

 

I will spend some time at some point and pull out threads from previous years where they professionally coach each other in how to cut hours, give up work and game the system to the max even to the point where they guided each other use benefit income to increase the amount of mortgage they could get. Now These people have had the rug pulled from under their feet.

 

I can't criticise them. Their behaviour is totally explainable and understandable. They looked at the rules and they worked out the best way to use them for themselves.

 

The Tories position is understandable too and its a huge gamble. These tax credits need to be cut big time and cut now. These kinds of cuts have to be front loaded at the start of a parliament as they can't be made in the run-up to election because of the risk.

 

The problem is it's another experiment just like Osborne's expansionary fiscal contraction. That failed. Now he is gambling that new jobs and more hours will magically appear to fill the gap created in the standard of living for those who suffer the cuts. Looking at things rationally it won't work. The cuts are big and millions of new jobs are not going to magically appear in April. The gamble is going to be lost if Osborne continues with his plans.

 

Whats the point you are making in that thread? Ive just read it obviously they are upset, but not sure what point you are trying to make or how that relates to Ron?

Just wondering whether its worth carrying on with this thread as its shifted substantially from the original point. Im just trying to make sense of where you are coming from and the points you are making before responding.

Edited October 16, 2015 by 999tigger

[Cyclone]

I'm certain that if someone claims to have seen one you can't claim for a fact that they haven't, and it doesn't mean the person that encountered one is lying just because the government can't find them .

 

Its likley that they didn't put that much effort into finding them.

 

Not that the Roundtree Foundation is government, but the best explanation you can come up with is "not a lot of effort"? They didn't even think to ask the general public and have people like Ron pop up to share what they "know" about the family 5 doors down.