ricgem2002 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 That's what I thought they were to begin with - an escape from the "poverty trap". But if, as you say the fraud is being facilitated and people earning as much as £50k are getting them, it is truly outrageous. Good on Osborne for stopping them for these people. but on the other hand you would be happy with someone earning £50k to pay as less tax than they can get away with eh ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Shock horror...but I'm with Osborne on this one. Tax credits were a good idea to begin with (but should never have been administered by HMRC, thousands of people taken away from efficient tax collecting and moved into inefficient hand outs and fraud facilitating), they provided a stepping stone from benefits into work. Before tax credits it really didn't pay to do any work because for every £5 you earned the same amount was taken off you. So the principle was sound, a leg up for the poorest paid to get on the job ladder. The reality is people earning £50K plus getting tax credits, Directors of non trading or loss making companies paying themselves NMW but getting massive top ups of tax credits, fraud on a massive scale, collusion between employees and employers to make sure the "16" hours is recorded but the extra 30 isn't. I could go on. If the poorest aren't going to get their tax credits taken away, but those earning £25-30k+ are then I don't see a problem. Tax credits were brought in when UK PLC wanted people to have children, have jobs and employ people but it was ill conceived and when families earning £50k are entitled to them then its gone beyond a joke. Very well put. Can we add to the list the fact that financial institutions chose to allow tax credits as income for mortgage calculation purposes. And that governments didn't legislate against that. And that that helped fuel the housing bubble. The thing that really annoys me is that we are now getting asked to continue to support this nonsense. To continue to help these people continue to pay mortgages they should never have been able to get in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 but on the other hand you would be happy with someone earning £50k to pay as less tax than they can get away with eh ron Of course I'd be happy for someone on 50k to pay as much tax as is due. If someone wants to pay voluntary tax, then that's up to them. I'm not going to condone tax evasion if that's what you're trying to imply. If they want to pay onto a pension or an ISA that's fine by me. ---------- Post added 20-10-2015 at 23:06 ---------- Very well put. Can we add to the list the fact that financial institutions chose to allow tax credits as income for mortgage calculation purposes. And that governments didn't legislate against that. And that that helped fuel the housing bubble. The thing that really annoys me is that we are now getting asked to continue to support this nonsense. To continue to help these people continue to pay mortgages they should never have been able to get in the first place? Seriously? I didn't know that. People on benefits paying for Mortgages. This has to be so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Seriously Ron why not familairaise yourself with tax credits and understand what they are and how they are paid. That way you can have an informed view. 1LT why not include them in your income for mortgage purposes because they are your income at that time. The majority of tax credits go to people who earn less than 20k a year and have 3 kids. Nobody earning 50k gets working tax credits. Fraud should always be reported. Edited October 20, 2015 by 999tigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Haha - we're going to fall out again then... I am against a subsidy given to businesses - I have an SME, but can see this would be hugely open to abuse and am against it in principle. Tax credits ARE subsidising businesses. Its what allows the 4 million per year boss of Next retail to pay 95% of his workers minimum wage. You seem to be a little confused as you are arguing on both sides here. ---------- Post added 21-10-2015 at 01:08 ---------- Seriously Ron why not familairaise yourself with tax credits and understand what they are and how they are paid. That way you can have an informed view. 1LT why not include them in your income for mortgage purposes because they are your income at that time. The majority of tax credits go to people who earn less than 20k a year and have 3 kids. Nobody earning 50k gets working tax credits. Fraud should always be reported. Child benefit is paid up to 60k. ---------- Post added 21-10-2015 at 01:14 ---------- Labours fault. We should never had tax credits in the first place. Employers should have been regulated and forced to pay more In accelerating wage rises. All its done is created a really attractive environment for MNEs to move in and exploit our mass pool of low paid workers. Domestic following suit. ---------- Post added 21-10-2015 at 01:20 ---------- Sad to say I was wrong, in my capitalist leanings. Marx was right 'capitalism will eat itself'. we are on the verge of major revolution. Next 20 years. And I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end! Edited October 21, 2015 by TJC1 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Child tax credit is paid up to 60k. So how much working tax credit and child tax credit does someone get on £60,000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 So how much working tax credit and child tax credit does someone get on £60,000? Child benefit. 80k is max in a couple. https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/changes-to-child-benefit-from-2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Child benefit. 80k is max in a couple. https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/changes-to-child-benefit-from-2013 Do you know the difference between child benefit and working tax cedit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) CTC (as I posted pages ago) for a single child, becomes £0 before you reach an income of £25k. ---------- Post added 21-10-2015 at 08:34 ---------- Despite the claims http://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/guides/tax-credits/child-tax-credits/ This table quite clearly shows that a household income of >40k means no CTC... (Even with 3 children). Fraud would be a different matter, but if they're hiding income then CTC is the least important, PAYE and income tax would be a rather bigger deal. Edited October 21, 2015 by Cyclone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) TBF cyclone let the people making the claims back them up. I was asking TCJ1. So TCJJ1 Do you know the difference between Working Tax credit, Child benefit and Child tax credit? How much child tax credit do you get at £60,000? How much working tax credit do you get at £60,000? Edited October 21, 2015 by 999tigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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