First 'new' grammar school in 50 years

[LeMaquis]

Rubbish. Utter rubbish. How many of the 80% of kids that were in your words were "written off" went to Grammar schools? None? THEN HOW CAN THE PROBLEM BE THE GRAMMAR SCHOOLS?!?!?

 

If you want to say Secondary Moderns were bad, say that. But the Grammar schools worked.

 

The 80% of kids I'm talking about were the ones confined to a second rate system called secondary moderns because they failed a test when they were 10 or 11.

 

I'm glad you think Grammar Schools worked. I went to one. You obviously didn't.

 

---------- Post added 16-10-2015 at 21:58 ----------

 

What a load of unsubstantiated rubbish.

I presume you were not in education in the 1960s and so are talking without experience.

 

I actually did go to school in the 60s and 70s. The Grammar school system was divisive socially. If you passed a test you went one way. If you failed you went an inferior way.

[Happ Hazzard]

The 80% of kids I'm talking about were the ones confined to a second rate system called secondary moderns because they failed a test when they were 10 or 11.

Again, so it wasn't the Grammar schools that were the problem, but the secondary moderns.

 

I actually did go to school in the 60s and 70s. The Grammar school system was divisive socially. If you passed a test you went one way. If you failed you went an inferior way.

The current system is even more divisive. Social mobility is far lower today than it was in the 1960s and 70s.

[harvey19]

[quote=LeMaquis;11184276

 

I actually did go to school in the 60s and 70s. The Grammar school system was divisive socially. If you passed a test you went one way. If you failed you went an inferior way.

 

I must disagree with you.

I went to grammar school but socially mixed with my friends who went to secondary school and never classed them as inferior then or now.

There were many pupils at my grammar school from working class backgrounds. We continued to live in council houses and mixed with the same people we had before passing the 11plus exam.

Edited October 16, 2015 by harvey19

[JFKvsNixon]

Again, so it wasn't the Grammar schools that were the problem, but the secondary moderns.

 

Maybe the problem was that the Grammar schools attracted the funding and the best teachers to go with the ablest of children leaving the secondary moderns to fight over what was left. Is it any wonder why some of them struggled?

 

This is why grammar schools are considered to be divisive.

[mossdog]

The point about those who passed their eleven plus is that from my recollection they were mostly able to grasp things quicker,and while not perfect it seemed a better idea to educate those types at a higher level.I see no problem with that.

In the war years in the RAF, those that were quick to learn flew Spitfires and Hurricanes(and plenty of working class background types too not just the privately educated) those that were not so quick were groundcrew (equally important but not requiring such fast decision making),

These days it's education for all at Uni quite a luxury really!...........as I fear lots would never get to University under the old system!

[buck]

I went to a secondary school, many of my primary school friends passed the 11 plus and went to Grammar schools.

 

I personally feel that this system worked, those of us who went to secondary learned slower but thoroughly, I knew of none who could not at least read and write.

 

Many went into heavy industry and did very well, eventually going to further education and bettering themselves.

 

Those who went to Grammar School tended to go into the professions, Lawyers, Doctors etc many were highly successful, some less so.

 

All in all I felt that separation worked, allowed teachers to focus rather than generalise ending up with a better educated balanced populace.

I also graduated from Grammar School way back in 1947, namely Nether Edge. I earned a School Certificate with 4 credits. I found I had an aptitude for foreign languages especially French and German, which served me well after I joined the RN in 1949. I later learned some Spanish, Portugese and Italian. I don't know if Comprehensive Schooling would have served me as well.It didn't come in till after I left school.

[LeMaquis]

The current system is even more divisive. Social mobility is far lower today than it was in the 1960s and 70s.

 

Social mobility doesn't just depend on the education system. Social mobility was higher in the 60s and 70s because of the post-war economic boom which created a lot of jobs that working class people hadn't had access to before. Regardless of the education system the boomers benefitted from a greatly expanding economy.

 

---------- Post added 20-10-2015 at 15:52 ----------

 

I must disagree with you.

I went to grammar school but socially mixed with my friends who went to secondary school and never classed them as inferior then or now.

There were many pupils at my grammar school from working class backgrounds. We continued to live in council houses and mixed with the same people we had before passing the 11plus exam.

 

That's not the point. I mixed with people outside school who I didn't go to school with because of the system. I didn't mix with them at school because the 11 plus had sent us to different schools. Grammar schools segregate education. We are not talking here about what happens outside school.

[buck]

Social mobility doesn't just depend on the education system. Social mobility was higher in the 60s and 70s because of the post-war economic boom which created a lot of jobs that working class people hadn't had access to before. Regardless of the education system the boomers benefitted from a greatly expanding economy.

 

---------- Post added 20-10-2015 at 15:52 ----------

 

 

That's not the point. I mixed with people outside school who I didn't go to school with because of the system. I didn't mix with them at school because the 11 plus had sent us to different schools. Grammar schools segregate education. We are not talking here about what happens outside school.

I went to Nether Edge Grammar School from 1942 to 1947. The social barriers broke down during the war to some extent with a view that we were all in it together. German bombs fell on houses in Totley as well as Attercliffe. The school was for boys only, but it employed a woman teacher while I was there, just one, but a big improvement. I had a working class father who thought Stalin was the greatest man alive. He protested to me that I was in school till I was 16, while other boys were working at 14, failing to note that I was delivering papers for 7s/6d, groceries for a quid, and working at a printer's job for four bob a week, more than I would have done at an apprenticeship. I could have qualified for College at 18 but he would have none of it. I joined the RN at 17 and never looked back, or came back.

[harvey19]

Does having year group classes graded from A to D segregate education in your opinion ?

Ref post 37

[LeMaquis]

Does having year group classes graded from A to D segregate education in your opinion ?

Ref post 37

 

You seem to get the wrong end of the stick with each post. Your "superior" grammar school education seems to have been wasted on you.

 

The segregation comes from the 11 plus exam, not from grading within schools. All schools grade but there is no segregation under the comprehensive system.

 

Now let's see you get the wrong end of the stick again.