Is the NHS useless?

[onewheeldave]

Dave, firstly I cannot believe someone just called you ill for having austism.

 

Thank you

 

 

Secondly, can you name another country where you would have received better care?

No. I've no idea what other countries have a better approach to autism than the UK. It may well be that the UK has the best approach to autism- that, unfortunately, would alter the fact that it's totally inadequate.

 

Autistics and other disabled people are committing suicide in large numbers, due to the 'care' they receive here. Proof here-

 

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2014/10/21/uk-welfare-reform-deaths-updated-list-october-21st-2014/

 

The uk medical system is well aware that high-functioning autistics are 10 times more likely than the general population to engage in suicidal thinking.

 

http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/10/13/suicidal-thoughts-10-times-more-likely-in-adults-with-aspergers/76016.html

[Cyclone]

Certainly not dominated by such people.

Although "complementary and alternative" medicine such as homeopathy is often available. I got plenty of argument when I suggested forbidding cosmetic surgery in the NHS to free up cash for mental health. Anybody got a problem with getting shot of these "alternative" quacks?

 

Because it was demonstrated that cosmetic surgery is rarely available and only for specific reasons. Unlike the assertion that it was available pretty much on demand.

[sgtkate]

No. I've no idea what other countries have a better approach to autism than the UK. It may well be that the UK has the best approach to autism- that, unfortunately, would alter the fact that it's totally inadequate.

 

Autistics and other disabled people are committing suicide in large numbers, due to the 'care' they receive here. Proof here-

 

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2014/10/21/uk-welfare-reform-deaths-updated-list-october-21st-2014/

 

The uk medical system is well aware that high-functioning autistics are 10 times more likely than the general population to engage in suicidal thinking.

 

http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/10/13/suicidal-thoughts-10-times-more-likely-in-adults-with-aspergers/76016.html

 

I don't think anyone on here is saying the NHS is perfect, far from it. But if no other country is doing it better then it just shows how difficult it must be to improve these areas, in particular mental health care. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try though.

[onewheeldave]

And like I said you entirely ignore the massive public health campaigns aimed at changing behaviour to prevent disease.

.

Clearly, "massive public health campaigns aimed at changing behaviour to prevent disease" don't work very well then.

 

Didn't work 20 years ago when they started, and don't work now. Innovativection is needed, not blindly repeating an approach which is clearly ineffective.

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2015 at 09:34 ----------

 

I don't think anyone on here is saying the NHS is perfect, far from it.

 

Equally, I'm not saying it should be perfect. I'd be totally happy with an adequate health service.

[Cyclone]

So what are you wanting them to do? Do you expect them to run into people's houses and swap the takeaway for a salad? Then chase them onto the street and make them run for 30 minutes a night?

 

They DO work. Smoking related disease has fallen massively due to public health campaigns.

 

Why do you form an opinion on the basis of very limited knowledge? It's not like it's difficult to find information about public health preventative measures and how effective they are...

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2015 at 09:36 ----------

 

One of my friends just did (his 3rd I think) degree in Epidemiology.

 

Go and study it, takes a year to get a masters, if you have a high level of maths to start with, and then you'll actually be an expert on the subject.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2015 at 09:40 ----------

 

Here's some light reading, just the 1st link that popped up in google.

 

https://www.nice.org.uk/proxy/?sourceUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nice.org.uk%2Fnicemedia%2Fdocuments%2FCHB7-campaigns-14-7.pdf

[onewheeldave]

But if no other country is doing it better then it just shows how difficult it must be to improve these areas, in particular mental health care. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try though.

 

As for other countries, when it comes to heart disease and diabetes, all those lacking a modern advanced healthcare system, without access to the modern western diet of processed 'foods', who are not living in unsanitary conditions, and not subject to starvation, have much, much lower levels of those conditions.

 

For autism, it's true that the UK is far ahead of underdevolped regions in terms of recognising the condition- however, much of the stresses that are causing people to recognise their autism, are directly due to the increasing 'development' of society- things like automated phone systems that many autistic people cannot engage with, yet are necessary to access any kind of medical help, or, indeed, to live any kind of normal life.

[Cyclone]

That's a lifestyle problem, not a health service problem. Although you will notice Drs and the government constantly telling people about how to eat and behave in a healthy way.

 

Something topical in the news today actually

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11971296/Fizzy-drinks-linked-to-increased-risk-of-heart-failure.html

 

Drs giving out information to the public in the hope that they will change their behaviour.

[sgtkate]

As for other countries, when it comes to heart disease and diabetes, all those lacking a modern advanced healthcare system, without access to the modern western diet of processed 'foods', who are not living in unsanitary conditions, and not subject to starvation, have much, much lower levels of those conditions.

 

For autism, it's true that the UK is far ahead of underdevolped regions in terms of recognising the condition- however, much of the stresses that are causing people to recognise their autism, are directly due to the increasing 'development' of society- things like automated phone systems that many autistic people cannot engage with, yet are necessary to access any kind of medical help, or, indeed, to live any kind of normal life.

 

I have to agree with Cylone on this one. We have had healthy living messages for years. I'm fairly healthy in general, do quite a bit of exercise, eat reasonably well, yet I've jut had a sausage sandwich and I'm sat next to a box of £30 of sweets from AQuarterOf as I had a terrible craving and ordered loads online...I don't even drink at moment! .

 

So I know I shouldn't really do either of those things, yet I have. We are all human and no matter what the health risks I am unlikely to give up Haribo and bacon. What can be done here? Nothing.

[onewheeldave]

So what are you wanting them to do? Do you expect them to run into people's houses and swap the takeaway for a salad? Then chase them onto the street and make them run for 30 minutes a night?

 

They DO work. Smoking related disease has fallen massively due to public health campaigns.

 

IMO, the bans on advertising smoking were a prime factor in it's decline.

 

I'd like to see bans on food advertising as well, because, advertising is proven to work- advertise/market junk/toxic 'food', and more people will eat it. So, if we're serious about modifying behaviours, we should recognise that.

 

Smoking aside, I think you'll be aware that heart disease, diabetes and obesity, have not[/i] fallen massively?

[Obelix]

Just to be clear, are you of the view that "the vast majority of heart disease is caused by wrong diet and is preventable by right diet.." is not true?

 

As you well know I never said or implied that.

 

Like I said, the NHS specialise in symptom management.

 

Geez... You can repeat that as much as you want, in the absence of evidence it's nothing more than a belief. That's a request for you to PROVE your assertion.

 

I don't know much about asthma, I've no idea if the NHS could have done more to prevent yours. But, clearly, your asthma is not a good example of prevention at work.

 

because you know just how my asthma is managed and prevented far far better than me or my doctor.....

 

Unlike your asthma though, heart disease is, in the main, entirely preventable, via diet.

 

Because my asthma isn't preventable at all naturally.... you know so so much about everything it must be great to be you! You can even diagnose and understand my asthma telepathically without ever having even met me!

 

You can repeat that as much as you want, in the absence of evidence it's nothing more than a belief. That's a request for you to PROVE your assertion.

 

 

The NHS do not prevent the thousands of heart attacks that their own research shows are caused by the diets their patients are eating. No, the focus is on symptom management via expensive stents and drugs, with a criminal lack of attention to far more effective (but not profitable) dietary interventions.

 

Are you going to address the points made in my previous posts and others about how the NHS has been acting in the field of clinical prevention for 60 plus years?

 

The only 'invoking' going on here is your tired cliche above.

 

It's only tired because it keeps getting trotted out in response to your assertions that pharmaceuticals are wanting people to stay sick...