Is the NHS useless?

[unbeliever]

Money is poured into the NHS. I've no idea whether it's enough, but I do think maybe it could be better spent.

 

Mental health is seriously under par and the care of the elderly is simply not good enough. However I think it's excellent when it comes to emergency care, and is still generally the best system in the world, though it does need some serious tweaking to get it right.

 

Up to a point.

What constitutes an emergency?

 

Is a mental health problem which puts you at grave risk of self-harm and/or suicide not an "emergency"?

 

How on earth did we get into a situation where the NHS has money for cosmetic (I'm not including reconstructive or corrective) surgery, but can't get somebody in great suffering and at serious risk, a psychiatrist in under a year?

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2015 at 10:46 ----------

 

We had a deal. The people and the state.

I work hard, I pay high taxes. In return they were supposed to look after us when we get sick. I kept my end of the bargain. They're not keeping theirs.

I want my money back!

Edited October 30, 2015 by unbeliever

[Hogg]

The NHS may not be perfect and is seriously underfunded by this Government, particularly in mental health. However, it saved my life free of charge when I had cancer and it saved my partner's life with an emergency operation last year. Had we been living in the USA we would probably both be quietly dead.

[harvey19]

I think one of the main problems when discussing the NHS is the usual comparison with the American system.

Forget the American system and look at the systems, efficiency and effectiveness of health services in other countries.

[tinfoilhat]

Just looked that up.

I could save £90/year on the monthly double-prescription.

I'll probably do that and I appreciate the tip, but it's small change considering my total healthcare costs.

 

I don't think mental healthcare gets a decent go anywhere. I was reading this the other day http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/oct/28/mark-hogancamp-marwencol-jon-ronson-miniature-town-horrors-of-war which was clearly about something else but boiled down to a lack of treatment. This is in the US. I wouldn't want to be ill there unless I was very very rich.

[unbeliever]

I think one of the main problems when discussing the NHS is the usual comparison with the American system.

Forget the American system and look at the systems, efficiency and effectiveness of health services in other countries.

 

This is true.

Through discussion with other sufferers across the world, including the US. We've found that others don't seem to have this level of difficulty getting help.

 

I wouldn't want to be in the small subset of US citizens who can't afford insurance and don't qualify for free healthcare, but I'm not advocating for a US system.

Also, lets not forget the reforms to the US healthcare in the last several years which have improved the system substantially.

[JFKvsNixon]

What graph are you looking at? The NHS funding is the orange bar, not the whole bar.

And it's as a percentage of GDP, not cash. The UK is richer than most and a certain percentage of GDP is a lot more money.

 

Comparing spending by GDP is the standard practice of comparison. You also need to look at healthcare spending as a whole, because of different systems of funding healthcare.

 

Lets not forget that all healthcare is funded by the public one way or another. Be it via insurance provided by an employer which is paid for buy the public via the goods and services that the employer provides, directly funder insurance/healthcare or publicly funded insurance/healthcare.

[unbeliever]

Comparing spending by GDP is the standard practice of comparison. You also need to look at healthcare spending as a whole, because of different systems of funding healthcare.

 

Why? The standard of healthcare is determined by the money spent and the quality of the management. Nothing else.

 

Lets not forget that all healthcare is funded by the public one way or another. Be it via insurance provided by an employer which is paid for buy the public via the goods and services that the employer provides, directly funder insurance/healthcare or publicly funded insurance/healthcare.

 

All you're really saying here is that money is ultimately generated by work. I don't see how that adds anything.

 

If the government hadn't taxed me for healthcare, I would not have been stupid enough to buy private health insurance with massive gaps in it.

[I1L2T3]

I'm not rich, but I earn enough that I'm paying significantly more total tax than the national average. We're making our contribution and we've always been content to do it. I like the idea that people no matter what their status have access to healthcare, and I've always supported it even though I know I'd be paying a lot less tax without it.

 

I'm starting this thread because I'm extremely angry that whenever my family needs healthcare it's either not available on the NHS so we have to pay ourselves, or the NHS charges for it.

What the hell! What on earth have I been paying for all these years?

 

I have a family member with asthma. We have to pay £17/month so that somebody I love can have £6/month worth of medication to keep them alive.

 

I have a family member with a serious mental health problem. Just forked out almost £400 for 90 mins with a psychiatrist because the NHS won't help. Maybe an under-qualified counsellor in a matter of months or a GP without a clue as to what they're doing will hand out some pills, which we have to pay for again, which are more likely to worsen the problem.

 

I can barely afford to pay the healthcare costs for my family. A big part of this is that I'm paying massive taxes for a compulsory healthcare program, which itself then charges me again when I try and use it, or just flat out doesn't cover my family's medical needs. What on earth is going on?

 

I'm frankly fed up with it. I give up. Shut down the NHS. I'll have my taxes back. Then I'll be able to afford the healthcare my family needs and buy food at the same time.

 

None of this proves the NHS is useless.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2015 at 11:32 ----------

 

My family have been repeatedly mis-diagnosed on the NHS and put at risk by their incompetence. Nobody has helped for "free". That's why, out of desperation, we've started paying for help. We shouldn't have to.

It took a fee charging therapist an hour to finally, after many years, give us the right diagnosis and a fee charging psychiatrist another hour to confirm it.

 

Waiting months is not an option as you would know if you'd ever been close to somebody with a serious mental health problem.

 

It's right to highlight issues with mental health provision. It is hit and miss and prioritised to those that are classed as an emergency or present a threat to themselves or others. The help is often not there for a lot of people when they need it.

 

Out of interest what was the next step once diagnosis was confirmed. Surely your private therapist/psychiatrist should be able to refer you to NHS providers should expensive ongoing care be required. You should ask.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2015 at 11:35 ----------

 

This is true.

Through discussion with other sufferers across the world, including the US. We've found that others don't seem to have this level of difficulty getting help.

 

I wouldn't want to be in the small subset of US citizens who can't afford insurance and don't qualify for free healthcare, but I'm not advocating for a US system.

Also, lets not forget the reforms to the US healthcare in the last several years which have improved the system substantially.

 

Even if you compare with other countries you'll find that as a country we have an incredibly low spend in terms of the outcomes achieved. The NHS is good value for money as it is for the nation. The thing is we know it is still inefficient and could be even better value. We should be focusing on getting that better value.

[JFKvsNixon]

Why? The standard of healthcare is determined by the money spent and the quality of the management. Nothing else.

 

You cannot just compare different countries healthcare on money spent alone, if you want a different type of comparison - purchasing power parity we're still down in 15th place.

[sgtkate]

I think one of the main problems when discussing the NHS is the usual comparison with the American system.

Forget the American system and look at the systems, efficiency and effectiveness of health services in other countries.

 

I did. I posted a link that did just that, but everyone seems to ignore the evidence that shows the NHS is by far the best healthcare system in the world, regardless of cost. As proven time and again by independent researchers. However, there are ALWAYS compromises to be made and sadly in this country we have underfunded certain areas of the NHS to our detriment. Mental health being the main one that stands out. To come back to the point made by unbeliever, many of the people getting cosmetic surgery are suffering from mental health issues as a result of the way they view their body. Perhaps if we had better mental health services in the first place the numbers of people needing this kind of cosmetic work would be reduced. Things like sex changes I think should be available on the NHS as to deny someone to right to be the sex they choose to be would likely cause huge mental damage to that person and I do not think that is acceptable. Some of the other treatment that is given, I roll my eyes at too.