Is it safe to holiday in Muslim countries now?

[exxon]

Do you believe that the home office are advising against travel to "all muslim countries and Northern Africa" then? Because home office travel advice is what the insurance companies rely on.

 

Clearly there are places which are considered to be high risk. But not, as the OP and exxon keep claiming, all Muslim countries and all of Northern Africa.

 

I believe that the guardian keep this list up to date.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/23/fco-travel-advice-map

 

The current foreign office advice for both Spain and France includes "there is a high threat from terrorism"...

 

The risk in Ghana (Northern Africa, popular holiday destination)

Is actually lower;

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ghana

 

Oman (Muslim)

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/oman

 

Lower threat of terrorism than France or Spain.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2015 at 09:28 ----------

 

 

It hasn't. See the post I just made.

Why are you trying to spread FUD? Is it just ignorance or do you have an agenda?

 

What a meanigless load of twaddle. You do know that Ghana is 70% Christian? Of course you don't.

Edited November 9, 2015 by exxon

[Cyclone]

Show your proof then. You've lied about the foreign office advice. Prove me wrong.

 

You wanted to bring the FO advice into the discussion. Now you're going to dismiss it as "a load of twaddle". France and Spain have a higher threat of terrorism than Oman or Ghana. Sorry that this doesn't meet your preconceptions, but that's how it is.

[exxon]

Show your proof then. You've lied about the foreign office advice. Prove me wrong.

 

You wanted to bring the FO advice into the discussion. Now you're going to dismiss it as "a load of twaddle". France and Spain have a higher threat of terrorism than Oman or Ghana. Sorry that this doesn't meet your preconceptions, but that's how it is.

 

 

Foreign Office Travel Advice for Tunisia.

 

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to:

 

the Chaambi Mountain National Park area

the Tunisia-Algeria border crossing points at Ghardimaou, Hazoua and Sakiet Sidi Youssef

the militarized zone south of, but not including, the towns of El Borma and Dhehiba

within 5km of the Libya border area from north of Dhehiba up to but not including the Ras Ajdir border crossing

 

The FCO advise against all but essential travel to the rest of Tunisia.

 

There is a high threat from terrorism, including kidnapping.

Tunisia borders Libya, where there is a continuing conflict and an absence of security, and where Islamist terrorist groups operate. The border is porous. Terrorist attacks have increased in Tunisia since 2013.

 

In October 2013, there were failed attacks at a hotel in Sousse and the Bourguiba Museum in Monastir.

 

On 18 March 2015, 21 tourists were killed, including a British national, in a terrorist attack at the Bardo Museum in the centre of Tunis.

 

On 26 June 2015, 38 foreign tourists were killed, including 30 British nationals, in a terrorist attack at Port El Kantaoui near Sousse.

 

Further terrorist attacks are highly likely, including in tourist resorts, and by individuals unknown to the authorities whose actions may be inspired by terrorist groups via social media. You should be especially vigilant at this time and follow the advice of the Tunisian security authorities and your tour operator, if you have one.

 

In public statements on 4 and 8 July respectively, the Tunisian President and Prime Minister said that Libya was the source of security threats, and that further attacks were likely. The Tunisian authorities have increased their security measures, but have also acknowledged the limitations in their ability to counter the current terrorist threat.

Edited November 9, 2015 by exxon

[runningman1]

I think that you guys are deliberately missing each other's points.

 

No one can deny that everyone in this thread is more likely to be killed on the roads than they are by terrorists. Anyone who doesn't believe that should probably read less of the daily mail and watch less Fox news.

 

However, if I travelled to say Tunisia I am more likely to be killed by terrorists whilst I am enjoying my two weeks in the sun, than I am to be killed in a road traffic accident.

 

I don't see how anyone can think differently.

[Cyclone]

That would be down to an inability to correctly assess the risk of being killed by terrorists in Tunisia.

 

Exxon however is lying, the FO have not advised against travel to ALL Muslim countries as he claimed.

And he's also pretending that I included Ghana because it was Muslim, I didn't, it's Northern Africa. Oman is predominantly Muslim and has a lower threat of terrorism than France or Spain.

James Stone claimed that "all of Northern Africa is unsafe", I included Ghana to show how he's wrong.

[exxon]

I think that you guys are deliberately missing each other's points.

 

No one can deny that everyone in this thread is more likely to be killed on the roads than they are by terrorists. Anyone who doesn't believe that should probably read less of the daily mail and watch less Fox news.

 

However, if I travelled to say Tunisia I am more likely to be killed by terrorists whilst I am enjoying my two weeks in the sun, than I am to be killed in a road traffic accident.

 

I don't see how anyone can think differently.

 

Very true. You spend 52 weeks of the year subject to the threat of traffic, even when on holiday. You also spend most of that time pretty much out of danger from terrorism. Even on holiday that risk is very small, but a few people who are stupid enough to visit a terrorist hot spot probably account for 90% of the threat anyhow.

[Cyclone]

There is a major terrorist threat to British tourists who visit muslim countries. That is why the Foreign office has issued warnings advising against all travel to these places.

 

This is simply not true.

[exxon]

This is simply not true.

 

Yes it is.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2015 at 10:02 ----------

 

That would be down to an inability to correctly assess the risk of being killed by terrorists in Tunisia.

 

Exxon however is lying, the FO have not advised against travel to ALL Muslim countries as he claimed.

And he's also pretending that I included Ghana because it was Muslim, I didn't, it's Northern Africa. Oman is predominantly Muslim and has a lower threat of terrorism than France or Spain.

James Stone claimed that "all of Northern Africa is unsafe", I included Ghana to show how he's wrong.

 

Foreign Office advice Oman.

 

There is an underlying threat from terrorism. Attacks, although unlikely, could be indiscriminate, including in places frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers.

 

Terrorists continue to issue statements threatening to carry out attacks in the Gulf region. These include references to attacks on western interests, including residential compounds, military, oil, transport and aviation interests. You should maintain a high level of security awareness, particularly in public places.

 

There is considered to be a heightened threat of terrorist attack globally against UK interests and British nationals, from groups or individuals motivated by the conflict in Iraq and Syria. You should be vigilant at this time.

[L00b]

I think that you guys are deliberately missing each other's points.

There is no point in comparing RTA fatalities with terrorism fatalities, it is meaningless in this debate: RTA is a risk that everyone runs whenever they travel by car everywhere, including where they live. I still remember vividly the poor Dutch (or was he Belgian) soul whom I witnessed dying on a dusty Iraqi motorway in the 80s, crushed in his Hi-Lux by a 10 ton concrete slab that a lorry travelling at 90-odd mph (which he was following and about to overtake) 'lost' on a pothole. Free-roaming camels and donkeys crossing the unfenced motorway were a bit of a problem too. There was no terrorism issue in the Middle East or northern Africa then, other than the odd airliner hijack by Palestinians.

 

This is far from being the case with terrorism which, when assessed as a single factor of risk on its own merit and in current times, permits a clear geographical delimitation: no 'zero risk' anywhere; limited risk in southern and northern America, Japan & Korea, northern/western/eastern Europe; moderate risk in India, Pakistan, south east Asia, central Africa; high risk in the Middle east and northern Africa.

 

Whether that makes it unsafe to holiday in Muslim countries (wherever) or not, is a matter of personal opinion, appreciation and attitude to risk. Personally, as I've already posted, I'm being pragmatic about it in view of the above geographical delimitation: high and moderate risk areas are out so far as I'm concerned, but I'm happy to run the gauntlet in the US, Mexico and north/western Europe. If others are happy continuing to visit Louxor, Sharm, Mumbai and the like, more power and good luck to them. It's no skin off my nose

Edited November 9, 2015 by L00b

[Cyclone]

Yes it is.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2015 at 10:02 ----------

 

 

Foreign Office advice Oman.

 

There is an underlying threat from terrorism. Attacks, although unlikely, could be indiscriminate, including in places frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers.

 

Terrorists continue to issue statements threatening to carry out attacks in the Gulf region. These include references to attacks on western interests, including residential compounds, military, oil, transport and aviation interests. You should maintain a high level of security awareness, particularly in public places.

 

There is considered to be a heightened threat of terrorist attack globally against UK interests and British nationals, from groups or individuals motivated by the conflict in Iraq and Syria. You should be vigilant at this time.

 

Yes, that's a lower level of threat than France or Spain, like I said.

 

It is NOT advice to not travel there, which is what you claimed.

 

Oman Middle East and North Africa No travel restrictions

France Europe No travel restrictions

Afghanistan Asia and Oceania Against all travel

France

There is a high threat from terrorism. Attacks could be indiscriminate. Due to ongoing threats to France by Islamist terrorist groups, and recent French military intervention against ISIL, the French government has warned the public to be extra vigilant and reinforced its own domestic and overseas security measures.

 

This is what advice not to travel to somewhere looks like

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all or all but essential travel to different parts of the country according to provincial region:

 

You were wrong. The FO is not advising against all travel to Muslim countries.

James was also wrong, the FO is not advising against all travel to Northern Africa.

 

L00b, I disagree. Knowing what a level of risk is and having some means to compare it to risks we run everyday is key to assessing that risk and making a decision.

Sure, we can't avoid the risk of being in an RTA, although it's unlikely to happen to me right now whilst sat in my study in a house on a quiet suburban street... But someone saying "heightened risk of terrorism" tells me very little. Saying 1/1000 chance of being killed, or 1/1000000 chance of being killed gives me some information. Knowing that my risk of being killed by a car in a year in the UK is 1/20000 helps me to put those numbers into context.

So it turns out that 1/1000000 is actually pretty low, 1/1000 (as it sounds) uncomfortably high. And just for perspective, trying to summit everest, with a guide and having done all appropriate training, 1/10 chance of death.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Cyclone